Vikki Slade MP: speeches 2024

Speeches

• 18 Dec 2024 · Post Office Redress and Funding · Hansard source

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  My constituent Donna is one of the 555. She was audited through Horizon, which found a loss of £186,000. An employee admitted fraud and was later imprisoned, but Donna was made bankrupt for the loss—for not just £186,000, but £250,000, which, of course, she could not pay. It was never challenged; we do not know whether the real amount was £180,000 or £180. She was awarded an interim payment, most of which was taken by the receivers. Now, the amount the receivers took has been taken from the final £75,000 fixed amount, and she has only been offered £20,000, despite losing everything. Will the Minister personally look at Donna’s case and ensure she gets proper redress for this obvious miscarriage of justice?

• 18 Dec 2024 · Provisional Local Government Finance Settlement · Hansard source

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  I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, as I am a Member of Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole council. Local government was brought to its knees under the last Conservative Government, with funding slashed and responsibilities piled on its depleted and exhausted workforce. I thank the local government workforce and wish them a happy Christmas. I and my local Liberal Democrat colleagues welcome the move to multi-year settlements—something we have long called for—and the funding announced today for homelessness prevention. I agree with the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister that we must eliminate the use of B&Bs, especially for families at Christmas. I also welcome the announced consultation on changing the funding formula, as listening to our local leaders is absolutely crucial. However, we remain really concerned about the removal of the rural services grant, which suggests that the Government do not understand the nature of rural communities, including the difficulties of providing services over sometimes vast areas, subsidising public transport, and identifying hidden poverty, often among older populations—that costs an awful lot. On special educational needs, it is deeply worrying that councils—particularly those that may literally run out of money, such as Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole council—still have no idea about what will happen to the statutory override. How are they supposed to set their budgets in February without that certainty? Can the Minister confirm that no council will be forced to join the Safety Valve scheme, for example, which would put at risk the support provided to some of the most vulnerable children? As we go into winter, the impact on social care is of the greatest concern. Dorset council shared with me a letter sent to the Dorset Care Association in which the director of adult social care states: “We simply will not have the resources to meet the national insurance contributions for providers.” Indeed, the Minister told me, in response to a written question, that only direct national insurance costs would be covered. What does he say to providers and to staff in charities such as Diversability, who fear for their jobs this Christmas?

• 17 Dec 2024 · Community Pharmacies: Devon and the South-west · Hansard source

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  I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Like my colleagues, I get a lot of correspondence about community pharmacies, which comes from my constituents and also from the pharmacists of Mid Dorset and North Poole. One of my constituents, Ruth in Wimborne, visited Quarter Jack Pharmacy for me at the weekend to get some data. I asked her to get some examples of drugs for which the price differential between what was paid and what was reimbursed was particularly high. The pharmacist gave her a whole list of drugs for which the money received was substantially less than what he got. He said that the precise amount varied from week to week, including for apixaban, which is prescribed to prevent strokes and which presumably saves the NHS a lot of money. Does the Minister agree that that is unacceptable? What commitment will he give to update the contract urgently? On the medicines shortfall, I cannot tell Members how many people have told me about having to go around the county to try to find the medication they need. Patients with epilepsy, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, Parkinson’s and sight loss have all contacted me worried about their health. David explained his issue with epilepsy, which is that stress can increase the chance of seizures. I have a personal example: my husband Paul also has epilepsy, which is controlled by drugs, but if he has one seizure, he will lose his driving licence again. He has just got it back after two years and I really do not want to be driving him around. The idea of people being unable to work or drive is mad. The list of medicines available under prescription includes epilepsy, but not Parkinson’s. Does the Minister agree it is high time that the list was updated, given that it was last changed in 1968? There has been a recent consultation on allowing non-pharmacists to give out bagged medication, and on pharmacists being allowed to give approved persons the right to issue medication. I wrote to the Minister to ask when we were going to get a result and was told that it was still being considered, so I really hope that, today, he might give us a timeline for when we can expect that for our pharmacists. Finally, in one of my local villages the GP dispenses out of a side window of the surgery, with patients expected to wait in the cold. When I asked why they could not reduce this inconvenience for patients, who are often out there for 45 minutes, I was told it was because they cannot make up prescriptions for three months instead of one because they get paid per prescription and not for the drugs, so the GP would be out of pocket if they made the prescription for three months. That seems outrageous. If it is true, will the Minister urgently review how that works so that dispensing GPs and pharmacists are not out of pocket for providing a better service to their patients?

• 17 Dec 2024 · Community Pharmacies: Devon and the South-west · Hansard source

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  It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts, particularly because I speak after the hon. Member for North Somerset (Sadik Al-Hassan) indicated that it may be his birthday, which means that he and I share our birthday with the Pope.

• 17 Dec 2024 · Women’s State Pension Age Communication: PHSO Report · Hansard source

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  I am shocked and staggered that the Secretary of State has made this decision in the week before Christmas—“Bah humbug,” springs to mind. She has talked several times about making sure people get due notice in the future. Does the Secretary of State have plans to increase the pension age further?

• 16 Dec 2024 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source

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  I completely agree with the hon. Member about natural solutions. The urban wastewater treatment directive seems to be completely counterintuitive. In Wareham in my constituency, we have a chemical-based removal system that cost £10 million and delivered a 10 tonne a year saving, whereas a nature-based solution was calculated to deliver 90 tonnes a year, but at a fraction of the cost. Does he agree that that is definitely the way to go?

• 16 Dec 2024 · English Devolution · Hansard source

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  Local councils are the backbone of our communities, delivering services to every home and business. Under the last Conservative Government their funding was slashed while their responsibilities were broadened, which means that many now face a financial precipice not of their making. As they are alongside residents, they are usually the ones in the firing line when people and businesses are distressed. I have faced local government reorganisation before, as leader of Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole council. Five years on in Dorset, the public are not convinced that large unitaries work for them. They do not see services improve; they just see a more remote council that has to cover a much bigger area, moving money from where it was raised to be spent elsewhere, and through an organisation that cannot understand the differing needs. Scale that up even further, and I fear that more issues and individual community needs will slip through the net. The paper talks of mutual respect and collective purpose, but after giving mayors such extended powers and the ability to levy a mayoral tax, I wonder if the Minister can confirm what specifically will be left for council leaders. For my area of Wessex, which is Thomas Hardy country, rather than being well-known local leaders, the creation of a mega mayor is more likely to be a case of “Jude the Obscure”. I am deeply concerned about the impact on local authority staff both now and in the future, including on their ability to move between councils to develop their skills. Councils have already rationalised staffing to make ends meet and have shared services, as was said by the shadow Minister, and they will struggle to reinvent again. What plans do the Government have to ensure that local authorities will be sufficiently funded to implement such changes, and to limit the outflow of millions of pounds to consultants to make this happen? Turning to the role of elected members, the lived experience of these community leaders is so worth while. I am deeply concerned about the loss of districts and district councillors and the move to strategically elected members. Those people are likely to be required to travel much further and give much more of their time, making it harder for people with caring responsibilities or full-time careers to serve. The paper brings forward potential sanctions for breaches of standards, which is very welcome, but it says little about how we reset the relationship with those counsellors to make sure that the time and effort they put in is properly reflected. The White Paper fails to say anything meaningful about the ticking time bomb of social care, and its reference to the financial crisis being faced up and down the country hints at further devolution. [ Interruption. ] My question is, what can the Minister do to ensure that local communities do not feel like this is a top-down diktat and can make their own decisions about the future?

• 12 Dec 2024 · LGBT Veterans: Etherton Review · Hansard source

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  Does the hon. Lady agree that it is not just the loss of a job or a pension, but the loss of shared values? These people felt rejected, as they could no longer do things that other veterans are able to do together. The hon. Lady talks about people who fled the country, but Karen in my Mid Dorset and North Poole constituency was betrayed by another LGBT service member who was seeking to protect themselves. Some personnel avoided their own discharge by betraying someone else. Does the hon. Lady have any thoughts on that?

• 12 Dec 2024 · Building Homes · Hansard source

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  The town of Wimborne in my Mid Dorset and North Poole constituency has doubled in size, with new homes built on three sides right up to the Stour. These homes are pretty much out of reach for local people, and they come with no infrastructure. Shops were supposed to be included in one development, but the developer claimed it could not get them filled, so now we have another care home. Meanwhile, Aldi has made a planning application for a green-belt site to which everyone will need to drive. What can the Minister do to force developers to deliver the infrastructure they promise, so that developers cannot play the system?

• 11 Dec 2024 · Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q You could probably build a small village on the land owned by each of the independent schools in my constituency. So while I accept that there are schools like the ones you described, there are also schools that might be able to merge to fix this problem. David Woodgate: It is not typical for a school to carry a lot of excess land, although we have seen prep schools moving on to the sites of senior schools, and disposing of the prep. That is an obvious thing to do, and they then put that money into bursary funding or wherever. We are seeing mergers of schools, which might result in one site being surplus to requirements, and then that money can again be recycled into providing the educational product. I do not think that schools are blind to the fact that they have some levers that they can pull, but they can only sell off the family silver once. It is not necessarily a longer-term solution. It is about what they do with that money and how they use it. Barnaby is absolutely right: I have been to four prep schools in the last two weeks, and they are just converted Victorian villas with no extra space. There is not even anywhere to put a minibus—it is that tight.

• 11 Dec 2024 · Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q Can I ask about occupation? I am thinking about the hon. Member for East Thanet, and I also represent a coastal community. We had a slightly surprised response when we heard that everything will right itself, when we have whole high streets sitting empty. My understanding is that if you have a higher rate for empty properties, it is likely to force people to take a tenant. Do you think the Bill goes far enough on that, or are there more levers you need to pull to make those empty properties work? I know we already have the rental auction and that that is not in scope, but does the Bill go far enough or can the multipliers be levered even more? Jim McMahon: It will. We need to stay in scope of the Bill, but the Bill does not sit in isolation. This is a wider package of reform and intervention, reflecting the fact that businesses do not operate in isolation; they are part of an ecosystem in many places. Think about the impact of, say, an anchor department store closing, or a bank branch, a post office or an office block. What that does to the footfall in a place has a huge impact, so we need to take a range of measures. We absolutely understand the importance of town centres and high streets not just to the economy but for identity, pride and confidence in the future. I will be careful not to stray too far out of scope here, but communities often feel they lack the power to take control of their high streets. There are cases where a unit has been left vacant and there is a local business that would take it on, but the landlord is not interested, either because they are absent and missing in action, or because they are an investor where the bulk value is more important than the actual rent that can be collected. That is why things such as the community right to buy, which gives the community the right to have assets, and a community asset register, which gives protection to assets of community value, are important. It is also important to provide more time for communities to self-organise and maybe take over some of these assets. This is an important step that will go some way to achieving that, but in isolation, it would not be enough, which is why the other steps we are taking will make a difference. Where this will make an absolute difference is that once we have dealt with the empty property, the businesses that occupy it onwards can be that bit more viable, because the business rates will be lessened on their operating costs.

• 11 Dec 2024 · Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q We heard earlier that 130,000 children with special educational needs are in independent schools, of whom 100,000 do not have an EHCP. If you assume that the majority of those are not in specialist EHCP/SEND schools, the potential is for 100,000 children possibly to make that switch. Do you have any thoughts on how many of those schools might be pushed towards specialising in special educational needs? Do you have any idea of whether we might see a shift in what private schools choose to specialise in going forward? Professor Green: That is an interesting thought. I do not have a specialist estimate to give you on that. It is a conceivable response. I am not sure that it is a necessarily a bad response if it does happen that way. But, again, I repeat: I do not think there will be a large number in those circumstances. Inevitably, whenever you make a change like this, there is always someone at the margin who is just kind of tipped over the edge, saying, “I really can’t afford this any more.” I happen to know somebody in that particular position in my area. I am fairly sure that a large number of those people will have to deal with the situation; there may be a 1% or 2% rise in the prices, which might not otherwise have happened, but, of course, prices rise all the time. Prices have gone up many times since the turn of the century, and they continue to go up, so it would be very hard to distinguish the rises associated with this measure from the regular fee rises that go on anyway.

• 11 Dec 2024 · Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q I am conscious of trying to keep to the Bill, because I am worried that a lot of your comments are really about the state of the independent sector more widely. As has been suggested, the Bill will make a relatively minor change, although I understand that it comes on the back of other things. What thought has been given to how the independent sector might mitigate what is effectively a change to a property tax by rationalising the amount of property it uses? An awful lot of independent schools have an awful lot of land and property, and they could perhaps mitigate the impact by doing that. Has any thought been given to rethinking how you use property? Barnaby Lenon: Before I ask David to answer that, can I just say that there are not a lot of independent schools that have a lot of property. There are a small number that definitely have a lot of property, but if you had visited as many independent schools as I have, you would see that a lot of them are in converted houses, with no other property. Many, many of our schools have far less property than a normal state primary school would have. Nevertheless, your point is taken.

• 11 Dec 2024 · Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q I completely accept the point that a lot of the talk around the Bill is about high streets, because of the particular references to retail, hospitality and leisure. But it is a Bill that affects non-domestic rates and multipliers for businesses. Do you have any thoughts or comments on the fact that there is no reference to manufacturing and how we support manufacturing businesses? Do you think that should be included within the Bill? Rachel Kelly: Whether that can be included in the Bill, I do not know. But yes, the issue of an uncompetitive property tax system is relevant for lots of industries, and manufacturing is the one that you raised. Ultimately, that comes back to the higher rate of tax across the board. If you are alluding to the higher tax rate for the rateable values above £500,000—yes, it strikes me as an arbitrary threshold, and it will capture lots of different businesses and sectors. Maybe there will be some adverse consequences of that, which might be counter to the policy aims, but I am not sure. It is a tricky one to balance. Ultimately, if this relief for retail, hospitality and leisure will be funded within the business rate system, our instinct is that it would be better to fund that across as broad a spectrum of the economy as possible, rather than narrow down that tax base even further. For context, the proportion of properties with a rateable value above £500,000 is 1% of commercial property in the UK. If we condense that down even further, it is a very narrow tax base to fund these other changes, so I am not sure that is sustainable. I am not sure we can address the issue of competitiveness for other sectors without addressing the elephant in the room, which is the huge tax rate that we have for everyone else—55%, or 50% for smaller businesses. They are very high tax rates compared with any other business tax.

• 11 Dec 2024 · Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q I would like to touch on that further. The Bill will give the Treasury the power to apply those additional multipliers. Do you feel that should be a local decision? You have hit the nail on the head; the way business rates work can be impacted by a local situation, such as a retailer going out of business or there being very high rents. Do you think that the Bill gives local areas the ability to think about how they might need to apply different multipliers? Would you like to see more regional or local implications, rather than it all coming through the Treasury? Gary Watson: I go back a long time in business rates; I was working in rating up until 1990 when it was very much the local authority that set the rate and collected the rate. That was one of the reasons why they went to a national non-domestic rate in 1990. I think the councils have a key role to play. That is why I am keen for the relief system to give local authorities an element of discretion so that they can direct reliefs to certain types of rate plan. That goes for not just the high street but the wider picture. In terms of ensuring an element of consistency, it was interesting that when the reliefs were coming in during the pandemic, there were a lot of local authorities turning around and saying, “Can’t you just tell us what it is?” Then central Government were saying, “You wanted the discretions and now you want it controlled. You can’t have it both ways,” so I think it is a balance. It raises so much money: all the strengths of a property tax are there for both central Government and local government, and for the ratepayer as well. It is about getting that balance. Controlling the central rate is right, but making sure that councils have an element of discretion, whether through variance in the multiplier or a particular relief, is something to be considered. But again you have to be careful, because local government is different in lots of different areas. There are different challenges in lots of local authorities, and you are sometimes trying to have a rating system that fits every part of the country. That is why you need that flexibility there.

• 11 Dec 2024 · Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q You talked a lot about the retail properties over £500,000, but there is also a cliff edge at £51,000. The Fantastic Things Emporium in Bournemouth is a brilliant treasure trove of lots of microbusinesses that would otherwise not have the ability to be on the high street. Is £51,000 the right level? Should the level exist at all? Helen Dickinson: I will start and then hand over. Tom highlighted earlier that whenever you have a threshold of some description, there will be a cliff edge risk. I know it is a goal of the current Government, as it was of the previous Government, to ensure that small and microbusinesses get the support they need to be able to grow. There is recognition right across retail that there is a case for a higher discount for really small businesses as they begin to grow and a next-level discount, for want of a better description, for those above that. The threshold risk is there, but the improvements proposed in the discussion paper, which are not necessarily in the Bill, about transparency from the Valuation Office Agency on data and the processes it goes through should at least give a greater ability to get through the appeals process and give people more clarity and certainty. That will hopefully avoid at least some of the consequences of those thresholds. That is a long-winded way of saying that there is recognition that there needs to be a greater discount for really small and microbusinesses. You have to set a level at some point. Is £51,000 exactly the right figure? Whether it is £51,000 or £500,000, it is important that it indexes with inflation, because otherwise it will get eroded over time. Whether that needs to be in the scope of the Bill is part of the way to address your question. I do not know if that helps. Tom, do you want to add anything? Tom Ironside: On that final point, in 2001 there was around £40 billion of rateable value on the list. Now we have about £70 billion of rateable value on the list. It is inevitable that if you do not have some sort of uprating mechanism—we have identified the £500,000 threshold, but I suspect that you could make an equal case for the £51,000 one—you erode the benefit and purpose of what is being set out. We feel quite strongly on that front.

• 11 Dec 2024 · Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q Can I ask you about certainty? The Bill providers the power to introduce multipliers for a given year. With so many stores, you must plan a long time ahead. Do you think that, if we allow changes to be made so frequently, that will be a problem for you? Paul Gerrard: Your underlying point that businesses like certainty is well made, because we do; we try to plan ahead. If I think back 18 months to the energy crisis, that was unforeseen and caused a real problem. You are absolutely right that certainty is important. Also, though, there is flexibility depending on the economic circumstances at the time—the pandemic allowed a different flexibility—so I think there is a balance there. What is important is that, in deciding that, there is real transparency and openness. I spent 20 years in government, much of it in the Treasury and Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, as it was then. I would say of my time there that perhaps we were not always that open and transparent with business. The more openness there is, and the more that officials can advise Ministers based on what is happening in the business community, the better. I am relatively comfortable about the structure; I think it is the ways of working that are important.

• 11 Dec 2024 · Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q Thank you very much for coming in to give evidence. On the timing, we know that retail, hospitality and leisure relief will reduce to 40% in April, but these measures will not come in until the April after that. Do you have any concerns about the impact on convenience stores during that year, before we know what will be happening the following year? Edward Woodall: If you talk to convenience retailers now about business rates, what is in the front of their minds is the reduction in retail, hospitality and leisure relief, which has gone down from 75% to 40% from April next year. That is a big hit, among a cumulative burden of other measures that were announced in the Budget. That is concerning for them. They talk to us a lot about that, as part of the overall Budget package being challenging—and it was a big challenge, with £660 million costs for the sector. That said, we knew that the retail, hospitality and leisure relief was introduced as a temporary measure during the covid pandemic, so we welcome the fact that it has not disappeared completely but has been tapered. We also welcome the principle that is set out in the Bill that we are giving a bit more permanency to support for retail, hospitality and leisure businesses on the high street in the future. There has been a cycle of changes in the policy over time, so hopefully this will give us a bit more of a stable footing to understand that. That does not just help us; it helps the other businesses from the retail industry that are thinking about investing in those locations too, but also those from hospitality and leisure.

• 11 Dec 2024 · Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q In Northern Ireland, there is a single regional rate and then a local levy. Do you have views about whether there should be any local influence in terms of these determinants reflecting higher rents, particularly in the south-east or south-west, that put lots of businesses above the £51,000 threshold? Stuart Adam: There are a number of questions. One is how far the rates should be set locally versus centrally. Obviously there was a history there of them being centralised in 1990. There is a question as to how much localism you want. If you are going to have local taxes, property taxes are a pretty good choice—housing more so than business property taxes. But if you wanted to localise more taxes, business rates would not be a bad choice. There might be things you can do along the lines that we have seen already about, for example, having a ballot of local businesses as a requirement and that kind of thing. There is a case for whether it should be local or central—I do not have a strong view either way. There is a question as to how far the revenues should be redistributed across the country and whether areas that get more business rates revenue should have more funding as a result. That, again, comes into a broader question about the local government finance system. It is not obvious that just happening to have more high value businesses in an area is a good reason for that area to get more revenue. I think there is a better argument for things such as business rates retention, where you want to give local authorities some incentives, some reward, for having more businesses, encouraging them and generating local economic growth and so on. There is then a question about whether, even if it is set centrally, the rates and thresholds of business rates should be different across the country. It is not obvious to me that there is a good argument for that, but it is not obvious to me that there is a good argument for it being different across different sizes of business or sectors, either. I would not rule out that you could make a case for it. In those other cases in terms of smaller businesses and retail, hospitality and leisure, you can make a case for it. I am not saying that you should never have any variation, but I would want to hear that argument made clearly. In terms of variation across areas, I do not think I have heard that argument made.

• 11 Dec 2024 · Puberty-suppressing Hormones · Hansard source

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  While I am deeply disappointed, on behalf of our trans children, by the Secretary of State’s statement, I thank him for speaking directly to those children. I know that they will appreciate his sentiments. Trans young people in Mid Dorset and North Poole already rely increasingly heavily on their GPs, their schools and CAMHS, with many leaving education entirely, doing serious harm to themselves and losing their lives while on the waiting list. The former director of Tavistock told me that no data was collected on incidents of assisted suicide and deaths of children who were on the waiting list. Data was collected only of children and young people who had already started treatment. As a result, we have no information about the harms that young people and their families are going through in those years leading up to treatment. What assurance can the Secretary of State give me that those already under the care of CAMHS and paediatricians will be treated urgently? Can he update me on progress on how long those already on the list might expect to wait? Will he commit to collecting data from families on the waiting list, so that we can truly understand their experiences?

• 9 Dec 2024 · Skills Training · Hansard source

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  Lytchett Minster school in my constituency is proud of its record in delivering level 3 BTecs; in fact, its sixth form would not survive without BTecs. What assurance can the Secretary of State give me about the continuation of these really important qualifications, which suit less academically able children?

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  Today, the BBC is reporting a Russian submarine sailing between Japanese islands and close to Taiwan. Last month, we had reports of a Russian ship being monitored by HMS Cattistock near our own UK waters. How concerned should we be that Russia is flexing its muscles? Will the UK be stepping up its direct support to Ukraine and making our troops, particularly our Royal Navy, ready for additional patrols and potential direct involvement to defend our allies and our shores?

• 2 Dec 2024 · Devolution Agreements: Somerset · Hansard source

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  I hope that you will endure us, Mr Speaker. Dorset council, which covers half my constituency, has agreed to work with Somerset and Wiltshire—all unitary councils—on a devolution arrangement, but residents are already raising concerns that top-down reorganisation will take decisions further away from their homes and communities. They are worried about what a mayoral combined authority might do to them. What assurances can the Minister give that the town and parish councils, on which residents rely so heavily, will not be expected to keep unitary councils afloat, and that my residents will not see back-door council tax rises as a result of the changes?

• 2 Dec 2024 · Topical Questions · Hansard source

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  My constituent, Dom, purchased a high-rise building that, it now transpires, does not meet building regulations on combustible materials used in the early 2000s. His building is being remediated, but the materials are being allowed to remain, locking in the risk for the long term and sending insurance premiums sky high. Why are the Government not investigating historic non-compliance? What is being done to protect homeowners from unfair losses and sky-high insurance premiums?

• 29 Nov 2024 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

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  We do not need to choose between palliative care and supporting those who want to make their deaths better. It is so fantastic to hear Members from every part of the Chamber with a shared commitment to funding more palliative care, and I hope that the Secretary of State and his team hear that and will go further, knowing that they have our support in investing more. But until they do, we cannot condemn those who are at the end of life to terror, loneliness and being forced into horrible circumstances. I have been concerned by some of the comments in the debate, so I re-read the Bill as I sat here. It has been suggested that mental health conditions would be included, but they would not—under clause 2(3). It was also suggested that people might not be offered surgery or other treatment, but they must, under clause 4(4). It is also worth noting the suggestion that a person being coerced could be protected by disclosing to the very family that might be coercing them. The provision for a witness in clause 5(2)(c)(ii) and the period of reflection would allow the independent person to be present at the appropriate time. I have already shared publicly my own family’s death journeys—and I wear them on my jacket—but today is not about them. Today is about all those people who need this Bill. Last night I read the book “Die Smiling”, about Nigel’s journey to Dignitas. It ends with his final journey and a Facebook post, prepared before he made that agonising 20-hour journey to Switzerland with his wife and children. It moved me to tears. However, most people cannot afford that option. Most do not want to put their families at risk of prosecution; they want death on their own terms. Gary lives in my constituency, and he asked me to tell the House his story of dying with liver cancer. He knows that the end stages will be brutal, and he wants to decide when enough is enough. He me: “Death does not worry me at all. Dying a slow death with my dignity stripped away terrifies me. So when my time is right I will kill myself—alone and afraid. My sick dog will not have to die alone and afraid, but I am forced to do so. I want to die on my terms. How can this be right?” Tracie, who was a palliative care nurse, told me: “I’ve witnessed many end of life patients and I cannot say hand on heart that many of those patients had a peaceful death. I left palliative nursing as the emotional trauma became too much. There are neither the range of medication or symptom relief treatments available for many of the harrowing things people are forced to go through in their last days and weeks of their life.” This Bill is about compassion and humanity, and we must listen to the voices of dying people.