Torsten Bell MP: speeches 2025

Speeches

• 9 Jun 2025 · Winter Fuel Payment · Hansard source

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  That is exactly the point I have just made: what are Labour Governments here for? Building a fairer Britain. What did the last Labour Government do? They brought down child poverty, halved pensioner poverty and raised wages year after year. That is what this Government will do again.

• 9 Jun 2025 · Winter Fuel Payment · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend is right to highlight the targeting. Setting the means test threshold at £35,000 ensures that it is well above the income levels of pensioners in poverty and is around the average earnings level. On policy in Scotland, an important principle of devolution is that those are decisions for the Scottish Government, but they are also decisions for which they will be held accountable.

• 9 Jun 2025 · Winter Fuel Payment · Hansard source

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  I will deal directly with two of the questions raised because it is important to provide reassurance. The right hon. Lady asks what will happen with the estate of someone who is deceased. I want to be clear that His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs will never pursue any estate for the winter fuel payment alone. She also asks about the level of savings. As I set out in my statement, the savings will be £450 million a year in England and Wales. That is very clear, and it is a significant saving. More broadly, the hon. Lady talks about an apology. She comes here representing the party of Liz Truss and lectures anybody else about apologies; she comes here representing the party of flatlining wages, rising debt and a 200,000 increase in pensioners in poverty, and asks anybody else to apologise. I have never heard such nonsense. We have listened to pensioners. For all her sound and fury—she was at her most furious today—I still cannot tell what the Conservatives’ policy is, 11 months on. For all the rhetoric and shouting, it sounds like she might support the means-testing of winter fuel payments. After all, that was the policy of her party’s leader, who once also supported means-testing the entire state pension in one of her bolder moments. Conservative Members say that the policy is not much comfort to pensioners, but Age UK says the exact opposite: charity director Caroline Abrahams said that this announcement is “the right thing to do”. Martin Lewis says that it is a “big improvement”. [ Interruption. ] There is a lot of chuntering from the Conservative Front Benchers. Maybe their Back Benchers can work out what the Front-Bench policy is by the time they get to their feet in a few minutes’ time. I have no idea whatsoever what the Conservative party’s policy is. More widely, when it comes to pensioners, the Government’s priorities are to raise the state pension and rescue the NHS. The triple lock will see state pension spending rise by £31 billion annually over this Parliament. Some £26 billion is being invested into the NHS because we inherited in England a disgraceful situation in which more than one in five pensioners aged over 75 were on waiting lists. There is no excuse for that legacy from the Conservative party. Neither of those forms of progress—raising the state pension and investing in the NHS—would be possible without the difficult decisions that we have had to make on tax. Those are difficult decisions that every Opposition party has opposed. Only this Government can provide that crucial support for pensioners, because we will do what is necessary to turn that support from rhetoric into reality.

• 9 Jun 2025 · Winter Fuel Payment · Hansard source

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  That is an important question. There is always a judgment in choosing a threshold for any means-tested benefit, and I want to be completely straight with the House about that. We have chosen a threshold that is well above the income level of pensioners in poverty, and it will ensure that more than three-quarters of pensioners receive the benefit of the winter fuel payment in England and Wales. The hon. Gentleman is right that it is currently in line with average earnings. It is important to have clarity for pensioners—a point that the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for Torbay (Steve Darling), just made. We will leave the £35,000 at the current level, as all thresholds in the income tax system are frozen for the coming year, so that pensioners know that that is the threshold and there are no surprises. Decisions about future uprating will be for future Budgets.

• 9 Jun 2025 · Winter Fuel Payment · Hansard source

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  As I am sure the hon. Gentleman is aware, those are decisions for the Scottish Government. However, as I said, I have spoken to the relevant Ministers in the Scottish Government today. There will be a block grant adjustment to reflect this higher spending in England and Wales.

• 9 Jun 2025 · Winter Fuel Payment · Hansard source

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  I can absolutely give my hon. Friend that assurance. We want to make sure that the vast majority of pensioners can receive winter fuel payments. We want to make that as easy as possible, which means making receipt automatic.

• 9 Jun 2025 · Winter Fuel Payment · Hansard source

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  The point about certainty for pensioners is important—I think that is the point the hon. Gentleman is making. As I said earlier, we are setting the £35,000 threshold so that people become aware of it in the coming months. It is a round number, and we do not intend to change it in the years ahead, although further in the future, yes, there will be questions about uprating, which will be considered in the normal way.

• 9 Jun 2025 · Winter Fuel Payment · Hansard source

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  I thank my hon. Friend for welcoming today’s policy announcement. We will continue to discuss with him all aspects of how his constituents are treated in the social security system. On the wider questions that he raises, I will say that the Government have obviously set out the position—I think the position of most people in the country—that we cannot continue with a position where one in eight young people are out of work or where we see 1,000 people a day flowing on to personal independence payments. We need a better system, focusing on supporting those who can work into work—the Minister for Social Security and Disability is setting out the case on that. I do not think anybody should support the position of leaving the status quo as it is.

• 9 Jun 2025 · Winter Fuel Payment · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend is right that we had to make difficult decisions last year, and I understand that Labour Members have raised those with the Government. It is why we looked again at the threshold and are sticking to the principle of means-testing while setting a higher threshold so that the vast majority of pensioners—over three quarters—will now receive winter fuel payments.

• 9 Jun 2025 · Winter Fuel Payment · Hansard source

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  Yes, that is exactly what we are doing, and we are funding that, because this Government know that we need to make difficult decisions, and will make them, so that we can deliver priorities such as investment in better housing stock.

• 9 Jun 2025 · Winter Fuel Payment · Hansard source

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  What this Government are doing is sorting out the mess in the public finances left by the Conservative party, and not repeating its irresponsibility. All Opposition parties oppose all of the tax rises set out in the autumn Budget, yet claim that they support the spending on the NHS and on pensioners—they cannot have it both ways. The party of Liz Truss has not learned its lesson.

• 9 Jun 2025 · Winter Fuel Payment · Hansard source

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  I thank the hon. Lady for her question, but the equalities analysis was done. Unusually, the poverty impact analysis was also published over the last year. I do not agree with the statement that she has just made, but she is right to say that we need to make sure that we are improving things for pensioners. As I said before, this Government’s priority is to keep raising the state pension and to rescue the NHS. As I said, one in five over-75s are currently on an NHS waiting list, and the funding to make that happen is possible only because of the tax rises that I hear the Liberal Democrats oppose week in, week out.

• 21 May 2025 · Business and the Economy · Hansard source

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  I will quote the hon. Member. He said, “‘could we be in recession’? Yes we could.” He talked the economy down—he knows exactly what he did—and British business has proved him wrong: no recession and the fastest growth in the G7. Although the economy is beginning to turn a corner, the Government recognise that there are big challenges ahead. There is no shortcut if we want to get the economy growing again; we have to start investing once again. That is why we have raised public investment by £113 billion over this Parliament. Compare that with the deep cuts planned by the Conservatives. It is why Britain’s pension funds—my day job is as Pensions Minister—are looking to invest more in productive assets and more in the UK. It is also why we are approving infrastructure projects from wind farms to reservoirs that were previously blocked for years. When firms decide to invest, they have to actually be able to build something. That is why Labour is the party of the builders, not the blockers. Let me turn to trade. The Prime Minister has in quick succession secured three significant trade deals. Every single one has been opposed by the Conservatives—opposing our whisky industry exporting and opposing lower food prices in the shops. It is increasingly clear that they say they support free trade in principle, but there is no actual existing trade deal that they would ever support. They used to be the party of Robert Peel, and now they are just the party of plonkers. We are under no illusions as to the challenges ahead. We all know, on both sides of the House, the deep cost of living squeeze that has left far too many British families suffering, but we are getting on with the job: stability in the public finances, investing at home, trade agreements abroad, interest rates down and wages up. After a long decade and a half of stagnation, Britain is growing at the fastest rate in the G7. We have heard a lot from Conservative Members, but not a single word of apology has crossed their lips for the mess they left—no humility for the unprecedented economic damage they inflicted, no apology to businesses or workers, and not even a sign of an alternative plan to drive growth and investment in our economy. The British public learned a very long time ago: when Tories govern, Britain loses. Question put.

• 21 May 2025 · Business and the Economy · Hansard source

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  Because Labour Back Benchers support and have total trust in their Front Benchers. All they would have said is everything that I am about to say about the record of this Government, of which we are very proud. I will come on to the labour market, which the hon. Member for Harborough, Oadby and Wigston raised. The hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) asked about employment and changes to national insurance, and several Members claimed that there is a direct relationship between changes to national insurance and changes in vacancies in the labour market. Let us introduce some facts to the debate— [ Interruption. ] While the shadow Secretary of State chunters, here are some facts: vacancies in Britain have been falling for 34 months, there has been a Labour Government for 10 months, and there has been a national insurance change for one month. Those are the facts. We cannot let the Conservative party escape from their disastrous record by reinventing history.

• 21 May 2025 · Business and the Economy · Hansard source

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  I said that I would give way first to the hon. Member for Harborough, Oadby and Wigston (Neil O’Brien), but I will come to my hon. Friend. That is not just my view, but the view of George Osborne. He says that the Tory party has no “credible economic plan”. I always enjoy listening to the hon. Member for Grantham and Bourne (Gareth Davies), so I listened extra carefully just now, and there is still no plan, credible or otherwise.

• 21 May 2025 · Business and the Economy · Hansard source

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  Are the hon. Gentleman’s colleagues listening?

• 21 May 2025 · Business and the Economy · Hansard source

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  It is not boom and bust. Wages for workers need to rise in Britain once again. We also need to turn the corner on an economy that is far too unequal. That is what our Employment Rights Bill will do.

• 21 May 2025 · Business and the Economy · Hansard source

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  This is hopefully one thing on which all Members and definitely those on both Front Benches agree: “It’s the economy, stupid.” It is a growing economy that raises living standards and that sustains public services and eases public finances. Perhaps most importantly, it is a growing economy that proves to people that tomorrow can be better than today. I welcome it that the Conservative party has called this debate. It is an important topic, it is deserving of our time and I thank all hon. Members for their contributions, even if I cannot thank them all for the duration of those contributions. Fifty minutes to deliver one speech is Britain’s productivity crisis right there. [ Interruption. ] The hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Andrew Griffith) is still talking. The productivity crisis rolls on. Given how important this topic is, it will be a surprise to hon. Members, probably those on both sides of the House, that this is the one and only time that the Conservative party has wanted to talk about the economy in the year since the election. It is the first Opposition day on the economy. I initially thought that that could not be true. I am a new Minister and I have a lot to learn, so I said to my office, “Go and check. They can’t have got through a whole year with no Opposition day on the economy.” My office checked and it found that it has been 10 months with not one debate on the economy. Private schools? Oh yes, the Conservatives want a debate on that. But investment, growth, jobs and the economy? Not one debate. It is no surprise that they do not want to talk about the economy, because their economic legacy was one of entirely unprecedented failure, as my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Dr Sandher) set out.

• 21 May 2025 · Business and the Economy · Hansard source

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  What the Office for Budget Responsibility has said is that disposable incomes will grow during this Parliament at twice the rate that they grew during the last Parliament. The hon. Gentleman has just given me another excuse to repeat my favourite fact, which is this: forget what anybody is forecasting, because in the real world, wages have risen more in the first 10 months of this Government than in an entire 10 years under the Conservatives. We are going to stick to our promise not to raise working people’s rates of income tax, national insurance or VAT, and we are maintaining an internationally competitive tax system with the lowest rate of corporation tax in the G7. Nobody on this side of the House is pretending that these were easy decisions, but they were the right ones and the responsible ones, yet each and every decision has been opposed by the Opposition parties. It is no surprise to hear SNP Members joining with the Conservatives, as they do on almost everything these days.

• 21 May 2025 · Business and the Economy · Hansard source

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  I will, and that is why I am celebrating the fact that average wage rises are happening. If the hon. Member does not want to be in favour of wage rises in Scotland, that says everything about today’s SNP. We are all used to the Liberal Democrats’ fantasy economics, but the Conservatives used to believe in sound public finances. They used to understand that it is only on that basis that the Bank of England can sustainably cut interest rates, as it has done on four occasions since the general election. The shadow Secretary of State, in his very long speech, claimed that these choices were not pro-business choices. I tell him that these are pro-business choices because it is pro-business to deliver functioning public services. Was it pro-business when the Conservatives left shops up and down the country paying a retail tax, forced to employ their own security guards because the Tories took the police off the beat? Was it pro-business when employers everywhere faced a health tax under the Conservatives because the NHS was not functioning and their staff were off sick? As I said earlier, growth is key. Of course, the shadow Secretary of State is such a champion of the British economy that he predicted there would not be any. Back in December, he claimed with glee that Britain would start 2025 in recession—

• 21 May 2025 · Business and the Economy · Hansard source

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  I will in a second. It is a legacy of stagnation not seen in living memory, with the lowest business investment in the G7; wages, which used to grow at a consistent 2% a year, flatlining for their entire period in office; the worst Parliament on record for living standards; and the public finances trashed as debt soared. It is no surprise that the Conservatives have nothing to say about the past—the Leader of the Opposition said that it was true that they had no plan for growth—and it is staggering that they still have nothing to say about the future.

• 21 May 2025 · Business and the Economy · Hansard source

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  Real household disposable income per capita is growing quite fast, according to the latest measure at the end of the fourth quarter of 2024. The OBR says that the legacy of the previous Government has shown it that productivity and growth in this economy have been too slow. Our job is to turn around their record, so that the forecasts and real wages start to rise.

• 21 May 2025 · Business and the Economy · Hansard source

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  What is great about my hon. Friend is that he has a forecasting ability that is significantly above that of many economic forecasters. He has predicted exactly where I shall be turning shortly. I want to dwell on a few points about the unequal economy. Three million workers have benefited from the introduction of a higher minimum wage last month. That is worth £1,400 to a full-time worker. Just today, the Trussell Trust provided an update on the painful symbol of modern Britain that is food banks. Far too many food parcels were provided over the last 12 months: 2.9 million. That is up by nearly a half over five years, which is an absolute disgrace, but it is down 8% on the past year and we need to keep it falling. Several hon. Members have raised the question of tax. The right hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) and the shadow Minister sounded as if they were opposed to all taxes and made it the core of their argument that a higher tax level is a problem that this Government have put in place. Neither of them mentioned that the increase in taxes under the Tories in the last Parliament was significantly higher than any change in taxes under this Government— [ Interruption. ] It is true. The hon. Member for South West Hertfordshire (Mr Mohindra) raised the question of non-doms, but also asked whether HMRC was behaving more aggressively. He favoured direct control of HMRC by Government Ministers. The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury now chairs HMRC, and I am sure he will have heard the hon. Gentleman’s points. On the idea that HMRC has become more aggressive, one of my first jobs in government was being involved in merging what was then the Inland Revenue and the Customs department, and I promise Members that nobody is as aggressive as the Customs department was in the olden days. There were guns involved. This Government had to take difficult but fair choices on tax in the autumn Budget—

• 21 May 2025 · Business and the Economy · Hansard source

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  The most important fact for my Swansea West constituents is that wages at the end of the Conservatives’ period in office were stuck at the same level as when they came into office in 2010—14 wasted years for my constituents. To respond to the hon. Gentleman’s question about unemployment, I would not use the claimant count at that level because the data is not as robust as it should be. Several hon. Members have, over the course of the debate, talked about increases in the unemployment rate in recent months. Why has the unemployment rate gone up? It is not because employment has come down, but because the inactivity that shot up on the Conservatives’ watch has started to decline. That is what is going on beneath the numbers. Why do Conservative Members not want to talk about their disastrous record on the labour market? It is because they left us as the only G7 economy whose employment rate still had not returned to pre-pandemic levels. They left us with 2.8 million people out of work through long-term sickness, and 1 million young people not in education, employment or training—more than one in eight young people were left on the scrapheap by the Conservatives. Let me turn to the labour market today, which hon. Members have mentioned. Some 200,000 jobs have been created since the Government took office. Pay has outstripped prices, with the strongest real pay growth for years. Let me pause on the question of wages, because for many people, what they get paid is the economy. Here is a fact so staggering that it tells us all we need to know about the failure of the previous Government and the progress made under this one: wages have grown faster in the first 10 months of this Government than they did in the first 10 years of Tory Governments from 2010. That is what a country turning a corner looks like.

• 20 May 2025 · Topical Questions · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. Raising investment in the UK is about boosting not just the supply of capital, but the demand for it—the investment pipeline. We are approving infrastructure projects, from wind farms to reservoirs, that the Conservatives blocked for years. By reforming the planning system, we are doing something really radical: building homes.