Steve Darling MP: speeches

Speeches

• 17 Dec 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Thirteenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I echo the comments from my hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham about the impact of endometriosis on younger women’s lives. It can be extremely incapacitating. A constituent of mine in Torbay shared how her daughter had to give up work because of the impact and the length of time that it was taking her to go through the NHS system to get the treatment that she deserved. Action to resolve that and get her in the right place was months and months away. To me, the Bill needs a couple of touch points that test the employer and challenge them to reflect on certain areas of their workforce. That will result in a culture change among employers, so that they reflect on these matters and see the broader picture. It is extremely important to drive that culture change by adding this amendment, because throughout the United Kingdom, including in my Torbay constituency, there are significant issues related to finding enough people to fill workplaces. If we have the appropriate culture through this proposal and other changes in the Bill, we can make sure that the pool of people who can step up and work and contribute to our economy is enhanced.

• 17 Dec 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Thirteenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn . Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

• 17 Dec 2024 · Women’s State Pension Age Communication: PHSO Report · Hansard source

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  First, and for the record, the Liberal Democrats played a significant part in government in introducing the triple lock for our pensioners—it is important that people acknowledge that. The Government’s decision is nothing short of a betrayal of WASPI women. I know that, as in my constituency of Torbay, across the United Kingdom there will be millions of women who are shocked and horrified at that decision. That the Government have inherited an awful state for our economy is no excuse. That the women are being hit by the mistakes of the Tories and that the Labour Government are now using that as a shield is utterly wrong-headed. Will the Secretary of State reflect on the decision? The matter went to the ombudsman for its considered review, and the Liberal Democrats have long supported the ombudsman’s findings. I am shocked that the Government are taking a pick-and-mix approach to those findings, and we therefore ask the Secretary of State to seriously reconsider the decision.

• 16 Dec 2024 · “Get Britain Working” White Paper · Hansard source

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  I hope the Secretary of State will join me in congratulating Chris McCausland and Dianne Buswell on their victory on “Strictly” this weekend. In the light of that victory, how does she plan to make the Access to Work scheme more fit for purpose, so that it can help more people with disabilities reach their full potential?

• 16 Dec 2024 · Topical Questions · Hansard source

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  A report by the National Audit Office last week highlighted how cliff edges in the care allowance system have resulted in 136,000 people owing £250 million. In the light of that, will the Minister ensure that we stop this injustice and stop the demands until a fairer system is introduced?

• 12 Dec 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  It is a privilege to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Vaz. I want to unpick another issue on which I would welcome some reassurances from the Minister. I have spoken to a gentleman from the Torbay Business Forum who supports a charity that works across Devon, particularly by supporting people with learning disabilities into employment. One often finds that it can take a bit longer for people with learning disabilities to find the right place and get a firm contract. What safeguards are there for charitable organisations and not-for-profit companies working in that sector to prevent them from ending up in the difficult position of having people on their books who, sadly, over an extended period of time, they realise are not fit for purpose because of challenges in their lives? There will no longer be the opportunity to offer extended flexibility. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham, I broadly welcome the Bill’s direction of travel, but I would like to see some of the rough edges knocked into shape for Torbay residents.

• 12 Dec 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Twelfth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Fire and rehire is an absolute scourge to those people who are impacted by it. Whether in significant numbers or a minority, it is utterly shameful. My Liberal Democrat colleagues broadly welcome the amendments, and we look forward to supporting the clause.

• 12 Dec 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Twelfth sitting) · Hansard source

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  We are strongly supportive of the measure.

• 11 Dec 2024 · Rail Services: Devon · Hansard source

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  It is a privilege to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Pritchard. I congratulate the hon. Member for Exeter (Steve Race) on securing the debate. This is an extremely important issue for the people of Devon and the south-west of England. Although issues with our rail services have been ongoing for many years across the south-west—mostly because of a lack of investment in public services from the previous Conservative Government—we have a new threat and challenge from the works that are being undertaken, as hon. Members have extremely ably pointed out so far, at Old Oak Common and the delays that we have seen there. In my many years of service to the people of Torbay as a local authority member, I have been somewhat sceptical of HS2 and the estimated £65 billion that it will cost, when we in the south-west have real challenges with the resilience of our network, particularly at the pinch point of Dawlish and when trains get to Cornwall, over the Tamar, and can go only at 65 mph. Our network is really challenged. To go back to the issue of Old Oak Common, the fact that the section of HS2 between Old Oak Common and Euston will cost £6.5 billion is astounding. The mitigation of £30 million that I understand may well be on the table for the impact of Old Oak Common on the south-west is a drop in the ocean compared with the overall costs of the whole HS2 project. I reflect on this as well: the south-west resilience project has cost the national taxpayer in the region of £150 million. The final part of the scheme is the Dawlish rail resilience programme, which will probably cost the same again, but that is small change compared to the cost of the big project that is HS2, and it calls into question the levels of mitigation. I am keen for my constituents in Torbay, and people in the greater part of Devon and Cornwall, to see us sorting out Dawlish and investing to save in the longer term. I would highlight that one essential of travelling by train is the provision of a toilet. Now, our modern equivalent is probably having good access to the internet. We would not get on a train without a toilet, yet we have poor internet connection across Devon and the Great Western Railway network. I am well aware that there is an oven-ready scheme, good to go, that was raised with and acknowledged by the Minister a few weeks ago. That could be a really helpful way of mitigating the challenges that we face with the delays in relation to Old Oak Common, and making sure that people can be productive; my understanding, from research that I have done, is that we are looking at people in the UK having half the levels of internet access that our continental cousins have. As the Member for Torbay, I want to be a bit parochial at this point and highlight the final piece of the Devon metro system, which is a very fine Devon county council plan. The final piece lies in my constituency, at Edginswell railway station. This is part of the town deal regeneration programme, which is extremely important for a couple of reasons: it supports a business park and regeneration in one of the most deprived parts of the south-west peninsula, which is sadly my constituency; and it helps our NHS. We need to see investment in our health services, particularly Torbay hospital, including to ensure that there is sufficient accommodation for NHS employees. Part of that is about regenerating Paignton town centre so that those people can stay in Paignton, jump on a train and be dropped off at Edginswell, almost on the doorstep of a renewed Torbay hospital. That is joined-up government. I hope that the Minister will reflect on Edginswell, because I understand that the funding may have been withdrawn in the last few days—but, to me, the crucial part is supporting Dawlish and phase 5 of the rail resilience programme, because that will support the rest of the south-west peninsula.

• 10 Dec 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Ninth sitting) · Hansard source

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  As a state, we need to reflect on what makes up our society. Often, it is family units. Whether that is the quintessential family of two parents and two children or something similar, supporting the family unit is absolutely essential. I suggest that the two new clauses are about supporting families. New clause 17 allows both partners to engage. Both my lads are now grown up. It is not just about the link with the child; it is about supporting the partnership of the couple—whatever form that couple happens to be—in bringing up the child. Extending leave entitlements would strengthen that bond. The impact of broken families on youngsters can be very profound, and we are strengthening families through these proposals. We will not push the new clauses to a vote, but we stand by them and believe in them wholeheartedly.

• 10 Dec 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Ninth sitting) · Hansard source

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  It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Mundell. I just emphasise what the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire stated in respect of smaller settings. In my constituency there are lots of restaurants and small hotels without the network of support for workers that a trade union would offer. It would be useful if Ministers were alive to the circumstances of those smaller settings. I also wonder whether the Minister is reflecting on what guidance he might issue on the question of what is equitable that could be reflected if people end up going to a tribunal.

• 10 Dec 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  My reflection on the Opposition amendments is that on this occasion my colleagues may be in danger of throwing the champagne out with the cork. The reality is that the challenges for people who face harassment in the workplace are very serious. As Government Members have highlighted, the comedy club example is relatively bogus, as the Bill would actually affect protection for employees rather than for punters. On Friday, I am due to visit Torquay Girls’ grammar school in my constituency. I invite the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire to join me and hear directly from young women there about their experiences in the workplace. Strangely enough, apart from universities, the sectors that Opposition amendment 131 would exclude from clause 16 are almost all in the hospitality industry, in which those young women would be working. When I visited the school some time ago, one student shared with me how they dreaded a certain day of the week because they knew that a certain individual would be in, who would make them feel physically sick because of their approach to them, and the sexual harassment that occurred within the workplace.

• 10 Dec 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  It is a privilege to serve under you, Mr Stringer. Broadly, I welcome— [ Interruption. ]

• 10 Dec 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman and I will have to agree to differ on that point. I am sure that the Government’s proposals will support those who are facing sexual harassment from third parties. As colleagues on the Committee have highlighted, the reality is that the legislation is about taking all reasonable steps. It is not saying that when somebody walks in and abuses an employee it is an immediate red line. The reality is that the employer needs to have taken all reasonable steps. I am very comfortable with the proposals. The Liberal Democrats will vote against the amendment.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Sixth sitting) · Hansard source

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  The hon. Member for Gloucester has ably made the legal case for why this measure is a worthwhile way to support our communities. I am aware, from my 30 years of supporting people in Torbay, that quite often those who are less legally literate face real challenges in getting themselves organised within the three-month period. The measure will support those who would otherwise fall by the wayside. It is a real opportunity for employers to make sure that tribunal applications are appropriate and to support those in greater need in our communities. I truly welcome it, and I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham does as well.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Sixth sitting) · Hansard source

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  It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I would like to amplify the issues raised from the Opposition side of the room. There are serious concerns, and we need to ensure that the regulations are as simple as possible and easy for employers to understand. I fear that this is a charter for HR consultants and lawyers, rather than driving the agenda that I am sure most people in the room genuinely wish to see being driven forward. I ask the Minister whether, before we reach the end of this Bill stage, further simplification could be brought forward.

• 3 Dec 2024 · International Day of Persons with Disabilities · Hansard source

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  I highlight in particular the good work of those at the National Federation of the Blind, who were on the estate today campaigning on floating bus stops. Does the hon. Member agree that the Government need to ban floating bus stops?

• 3 Dec 2024 · International Day of Persons with Disabilities · Hansard source

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  The Minister talked about barriers; one significant barrier that people with disabilities face is discrimination. Some people who have protected characteristics have the full force of the law behind them when they are discriminated against, but my concern is that people with disabilities do not necessarily have that and have to go through the civil court system. Does he believe that is right?

• 28 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q I experienced a conversation with sixth-formers in Torbay who were sexually harassed in the workplace. I would welcome your thoughts on how the Bill could be strengthened so that it is supportive of employers in their support for people who experience such a situation. John Kirkpatrick: We start from the position that everyone has the right to a workplace in which they are free from the risk of discrimination or of harassment. In our view, that ought to be the way it works. We have lots of evidence, as I am sure you and other Members have from your constituents. For example, from our “Turning the tables” report, we know that a quarter of respondents had been harassed by third parties in the workplace. That is a particular issue for people in customer-facing roles. It was interesting to hear Margaret talking about sectors that are vulnerable to exploitation. Some of those where we have found vulnerability—[ Interruption. ]

• 28 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q My constituency, Torbay, is sadly in the upper quartile of the most deprived constituencies. I would welcome your reflections on how the Bill could have an impact on constituencies such as mine where there are high levels of deprivation. Nye Cominetti: Well, I have a few caveats. First, overall employment rates are lower in high-deprivation areas, so we need to remember that all these measures will have an effect on workers, rather than those who are not working. If you want to improve income levels, this is not the place to do it. As I was just saying, however, we know that low-paid workers experience those issues of insecurity at higher rates than high-paid workers. You also need to remember that there is not a one-for-one overlap between high pay and high income and low pay and low income. Some low-income households will have higher-paid individuals in them, but because of having a large family or having only one earner rather than two, they will still end up in that low-income category. That caveat aside, it is still the case that any measures that improve working lives for low-paid workers will have the biggest impact on lower-income households. There are questions about what the knock-on effects are going to be. If you were really optimistic, you might say that some of these measures to improve job quality could even have a positive labour supply effect. We know that, in the 2010s, that was a big driver of improved income at the bottom and massively increased employment among low-income households. So an optimistic take on these measures might be that you could trigger some of those kinds of effects, but that is much more uncertain.

• 28 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q I know from conversations that I have had with businesses in my community that the Budget is set to have a significant impact on employers. Although there is a lot to welcome, broadly, in the Bill, would taking a more staged approach to its implementation be of help, or are you confident that your businesses could take this in one big bang? Helen Dickinson: That would help. I am jumping straight in, because I feel quite strongly about this one. I do not want to rerun some of the challenges of the Budget, but the pace of additional costs that have come in for every business—particularly for retail, because of the nature of flexible work, with a lot of part-time contracts and the changing of the threshold—means that every single retailer in the country needs to look very hard at their investment plans and workforce plans, and everything that sits around that. I think that everybody sort of breathed a sigh of relief with the clarity that the timetable was for 2026, but even now, looking at the scale of the proposals, it would be great to have more visibility over the sequencing of the different consultations, so that the industry can gear up in the right way to be able to respond effectively to them, and to make sure that we have longer than six-week periods to respond, with four consultations all going on at the same time, because that all makes it quite a challenge. Coming back to the direct point of your question, in terms of implementation, if there are changes that need to be made in companies, I think that a run-in, or an implementation period that is workable and that gives those companies the chance to make any changes to processes, is a necessity for ensuring that the Bill lands in the right way and that we do not again end up with some of those unintended consequences. I think the Budget has unfortunately made the backdrop that much more challenging, just because of the things that people already need to deal with now and over the next six months. Claire Costello: I will add to the piece around implementation timing: it is really easy to think of this as, “Oh, it’s straightforward; it’s about writing a policy, then, once you are in a business, sharing that with your colleagues, making sure that your line managers know what is expected of them, and landing it.” Much of what we are talking about here will require businesses, certainly larger businesses, to think about how their systems are set up as well. It changes your payroll system; it changes your workforce management system. All that is doable, but it is at the same time as other changes that organisations will be working on in the background as well. That is what we need to factor in. On top of that, where we then have colleagues who are themselves impacted by the changes, it is about making sure that you have time to make sure that they understand that and what it means to them. It is about that run-in. It is about more than the cost; it is quite significant from the point of view of process, understanding and implementation. That is the ask, really—it is the detail and the time. Helen Dickinson: I am sure that James will have points from a sort of one-establishment type business, but, for multi-site businesses, you could be talking about 10, 100 or 1,000 stores and distribution centres up and down the country, so we should not underestimate the significance of the need for up-front visibility of the changes. James Lowman: The other change that has happened with the Budget and those additional significant costs on businesses is about how retail businesses respond to them. In maybe a medium-sized business—among our medium-sized members—they might have had to take out layers of management. That might include, for example, HR functions and things like that, and losing that support. In an individual store, with an independent retailer, that retailer is probably working more shifts behind the counter and in the store themselves, rather than working on the business and managing the business. That will be a consequence. Decisions are being made to cut back shifts to compensate for those significant additional costs, so the ability and the time available for businesses of all sizes—particularly some of the smaller and medium-sized ones —to implement these changes is less than it was before the Budget, or before April. That is the reality of it. Again, yes, it is partly about timing—that is very important and I align myself with what Helen and Claire have said about that—but that also makes it even more important that the guidance and regulations are absolutely right, so that those already increasingly and additionally stretched businesses are not spending more time in employment tribunals and having to deal with complex interpretations with their colleagues, or struggling to fill shifts and therefore having to work more hours themselves.

• 28 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q I have one short question. How do you see the Bill impacting the United Kingdom’s productivity? Liron Velleman: The Bill should have a positive impact on productivity. Following on from Joanne’s previous answer, when people are in insecure work, they are worried about whether they are going to lose their job tomorrow, whether they will lose some of their benefits or pay, and whether they will have the security of knowing what shifts they will be working. Tightening up lots of parts of employment legislation currently on the statute book should give workers extra confidence, so that they will be able to be happy at work and work more flexibly, representing the current state of the economy rather than keeping to how things were. That should, in totality, result in greater productivity for businesses as well as for individual workers.

• 28 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q I will be brief. Tackling harassment is a really important duty and a really important part of this Bill to me. I would welcome your reflections on how the Bill could be strengthened to support employers in this area, which in Torbay hits hard, particularly for young women. James Lowman: We need absolute clarity on what “reasonable steps” means. Those reasonable steps should not be onerous, given the reality of 15 million people coming to the store every day, whose behaviour we unfortunately cannot control—believe me, if we could, we would. Having clarity and reasonableness in all reasonable steps is the thing to do, and there is an opportunity to build on that; the ShopKind campaign, for example, has been very successful. That is one way we could channel those steps to promote good behaviour among customers.

• 26 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q My second question is to you, Neil, although I do not know whether you will be able to answer it—I listen with interest. How could the legislation impact on employment opportunities for individuals who have a disability, whether that is a sensory, physical or learning disability? Neil Carberry: I regret that we are not at the end of the session, because it would have been lovely to meet Jennie. Let me reflect on the REC’s experience. Over the past two years, we have placed 3,200 people into work from long-term unemployment through the Government’s restart scheme, and many of those people have faced barriers associated with disability. Allen reflected earlier on the flexibility offered by hospitality. Agency work also gives us a chance to do things a bit differently; it is not nine-to-five in the office. Access to Work is obviously an excellent scheme, but it only goes so far. I will give you an example from Birmingham, where we have placed a single father into work. His challenge was not his own disability; he has a severely disabled child. The school to which one child goes is on one side of the city and the mainstream school the other child goes to is on the other side of the city, so he cannot do a nine-to-five. We have been able to place him into work on a flexible contract—when he can work, on a zero-hours contract. That is creating some opportunity. What is really important in the whole Bill is to meet the workforce where they are, and they are somewhere different from where they were 10 or 15 years ago. This need for flexibility is how people manage. Let me round off with my favourite example. We have a member which fills Christmas shifts for John Lewis up at Magna Park in Milton Keynes. That is 3,000 jobs every day between August and Christmas, making sure that you get your Christmas presents. Ten years ago, they needed 3,500 candidates to fill those jobs because people got sick, had a week off, and obviously did not work seven days a week. Now they need 12,000 candidates, because people have greater choice: they are sitting at home, signed up to five or six of my members, and they are taking the shifts they want. For instance—this is an example that we have used in our own “temp work works” campaign—we have a temp worker who is managing a chronic illness, and they are working in the ways that they can work. If we think about the Government’s agenda today, I think embracing flexible work and agency work on that front, as an enabler for people, is really important.

• 26 Nov 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q I visited Torquay girls’ grammar school in my constituency of Torbay some time ago, and met the head and some of the sixth-form students who were experiencing sexual harassment in the workplace throughout Torbay. Does the proposed legislation go far enough? I am particularly thinking of young people who may lack confidence. What could be built in to support them to call it out, so that it is not just seen—as other people might call it—as a bit of a banter or something like that? It is deeply hurtful and painful for those individuals, and the sooner we give them support the better. I welcome your reflections on how the Bill could be strengthened in this area. Jemima Olchawski: It could be strengthened by having clear guidance and expectations around the reasonable steps that will prevent. That should include multiple reporting routes, which might be anonymous if that feels more appropriate, and training for managers. Our research shows that managers want to respond appropriately, but often when those conversations come up, they do not know what the right thing to do is. Consequently, lots of those conversations end up going badly, and young people or employees do not get the support they need. It is also important that enforcement agencies have the resource to investigate whether policies and procedures are in place, so that we can embed a culture of prevention rather than just respond decently when incidents happen. That is in the interests of employers too, because cultures where there is bullying or harassment are bad for productivity and staff turnover. It is in everyone’s interest to ensure we address this and cut it off at the pass. Joeli Brearley: The only thing I would add is that when women experience sexual harassment or any form of discrimination and want to access justice, the justice system is currently failing them—it is not working. We know, certainly in cases of pregnancy and maternity discrimination, that fewer than 1% of women who have that experience even raise a tribunal claim. Part of what we need to do is extend that time limit to raise a claim. It is currently three months. It needs to be at least six months, so that women have the opportunity to recover from their experience before they start to go through that onerous, difficult process of raising a tribunal claim.