Stephen Kinnock MP: speeches

Speeches

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Defining “compelling” will be an important part of the code of practice. We will include case studies and examples to help to put flesh on the bones of that and to illustrate it. But it is important to emphasise that a clinician would only be able to overrule a decision to refuse medication if they cannot identify a clinically viable alternative or one that is acceptable to the patient. On training and the capacity in the system, it is important to note that we plan to switch on the new safeguards impacting the second opinion appointed doctor service only when we are confident that there is sufficient capacity in the system to deliver those safeguards. On the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West and Leigh made, we absolutely must ensure that the reviews are happening. That will be a really important part of the enforcement process. The hon. Member for Farnham and Bordon asked about legal recourse. The independent mental health advocate will be an important part of having recourse—for want of a better phrase, they will be somebody to really give back-up to the patient. There is then the legal process, if there is a tribunal or court. Ultimately, someone can go through the court system if there is a dispute about a particular issue. However, one would want to ensure that there had been an objective assessment, through routes such as the independent mental health advocate or through professionals in the system really looking at the issue. Of course, the second opinion appointed doctor plays a crucial role in that.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  One theme raised by hon. Members on both sides of the Committee is the need for clarity and safeguards so that clinicians are clear on how best to assess competence. The Mental Health Act code of practice already provides guidance on establishing competence in under-16s. We will consult on the guidance for assessing competence in mental health settings in the revised code of practice, with the intention of providing further clarity to decision makers. That will include engagement with key stakeholders and clinical decision makers with experience of assessing competence in children. We think it is better to focus on improving the practical application of Gillick and assessment of competency rather than reinventing the wheel, with the risk that that might cause confusion. The Department will work with NHS England, Social Work England and other partners to develop appropriate training for staff on the reforms. Once the code of practice has been updated, professionals working under the Act will be required to undergo training to maintain their competence and awareness of the Act.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  We are very much on the same page in looking to harness the power of technology wherever we possibly can to shift from analogue to digital, but recognising the importance of putting the patient’s needs and disposition first. Telemental health is welcomed by many service users and has become an established part of delivering mental health care in a range of settings and scenarios. We expect the use of a hybrid approach involving both in-person and remote interview and examination to improve the efficiency of the second opinion appointed doctor service, and therefore to be of benefit to all patients. We understand that remote interview or examination may not always be appropriate compared with in-person options. That is why the clause permits the use of remote only where it is considered appropriate by the second opinion appointed doctor. We will provide specific guidance on the circumstances under which remote may be appropriate, and where we discourage its use. All of that will be in the Mental Health Act code of practice. Many of the answers to the questions asked by the shadow Minister and by the hon. Members for Solihull West and Shirley and for Farnham and Bordon asked are contained in that. We are going to develop detailed guidance in the Mental Health Act code of practice, which will clarify and specify very clearly where this should be implemented and where we would discourage it. Question put and agreed to. Clause 19 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 20 Capacity to consent to treatment Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  The power to give compulsory treatment is sometimes necessary to get a person well again, but unfortunately some clinicians can too easily resort to this course of action without considering alternatives. Compulsory, and sometimes forced, treatment can cause distress and trauma to the patient, and some say that this has caused them to lose trust in mental health services. One individual told us that she was forcibly treated with a medication, despite its having caused serious side effects in the past. Sadly, her appeal to staff to offer her an alternative that had previously proven effective was ignored, and she was forcibly treated without any explanation as to why. That situation might have been avoidable if staff had only stopped to listen to the individual and consider other options. Clause 13 seeks to shift the culture around administering compulsory medication to patients under the Mental Health Act, while maintaining the power to do so. Under the clause, a “compelling reason” will be required to overrule a patient’s refusal of a medication, whether that refusal is made with capacity at the time, in advance or by a representative, for example through a lasting power of attorney. A clinician will be able to overrule a decision to refuse medication only if they cannot identify a clinically viable alternative or one that is acceptable to the patient. The aim is to encourage clinicians to take the time to consider alternative medications, for example by speaking with the patient or those close to them, or consulting their advance choice document. That will potentially avoid the need for non-consensual medication. Many clinicians already care for patients in this way, but others do not. Where the clinician thinks that there is a compelling reason to treat compulsorily, a second opinion doctor, appointed by the regulator, must confirm this, as well as other matters, before treatment can go ahead. This marks a significant shift away from the current system, in which compulsory treatment can last three months before a review by a second opinion doctor is required. We believe that the measure will help to cement the desired cultural change that we all aim to achieve. The clause is critical to making the patient’s voice more central to their treatment. Clause 14 will ensure that where a person does not or cannot agree to their treatment under the Mental Health Act, they receive the safeguard of a second opinion doctor appointed by the regulator. Currently, if a patient lacks capacity or competence to consent, a second opinion appointed doctor is to assess whether their treatment is appropriate, three months after the treatment course began. Although that is an important safeguard, it happens too late in a patient’s treatment course. Clause 14 will shorten the timeframe for that safeguard so that it occurs after two months, rather than three. The timeframe within which the patient’s responsible clinician must review and provide a certificate indicating that the patient is consenting to medication is also being shifted from three months to two months. By introducing scrutiny at an earlier point in the process, we will better protect those patient groups who may be very unwell and highly vulnerable. That is particularly true for patients who lack capacity to consent. For those reasons, I commend clauses 13 and 14 to the Committee.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Clause 20 will make changes to wording under the Mental Health Act regarding the patient’s capacity and competence to consent to treatment so that it reflects the terminology used as standard by clinicians. While this amendment is not expected to create a practical change, it ensures consistency with other sections of the Mental Health Act and the Mental Capacity Act 2005. As for new clause 5, it is our assessment that, were we to bring about legislative change which sought to introduce a statutory test of conscience for people under 16 in a single setting—that is, under the Mental Health Act—this could have unintended consequences for how competence is assessed, both in mental health settings and other linked areas of decision making. This could create additional confusion for clinicians and impact the ability of children to exercise choice and autonomy over their care and treatment in mental health and other settings, and cannot be justified. We therefore do not consider a statutory test under the Mental Health Act, or a review of that issue, to be necessary. We will consult on the guidance for assessing competence for under-16s in mental health settings in the revised code of practice, with the intention of providing further clarity to decision makers. For those reasons, I commend clause 20 to the Committee and ask the hon. Members for Winchester and for Guildford not to press new clause 5.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Absolutely. We must ensure that we act rapidly as soon as the Bill gets Royal Assent by launching the consultation process on the code of practice. It will be vital that the question of the practical application of Gillick and the need for clarity is universalised right across the system. The shadow Minister asked about the interface between the Bill and the Mental Capacity Act. We recognise the complex nature of that interface, which presents challenges for decision makers. We will continue to consider this interface as we implement our reforms, and we will engage with stakeholders to understand what support and guidance could help to improve application of the interface when we consult on the new code of practice. My hon. Friend the Member for Croydon East made some powerful and important points about the risk of unintended consequences if we try to reinvent the wheel on this. She is absolutely right. She asked what we want to see in the consultation on the code of practice. For me, the two key areas would be clarity and ensuring practical application of Gillick, by understanding the case law and the complexity of the interface between the pieces of legislation. It is about ensuring that we get that clarity. We cannot do that in an ivory tower. We have to do it with Social Work England and a range of partners with practical, hands-on experience to ensure that the code of practice is the bible for addressing these important issues. Question put and agreed to. Clause 20 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 21 Care and treatment plans

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I did not know that, Mr Vickers. Thank you for clarifying that point. To promote a patient-centred approach to discharge planning, we would prefer to avoid mandating in law which professionals should be present at discharge planning meetings. To formalise best practice, the Bill requires that the responsible clinician consults with another professional who has been involved in the patient’s treatment before discharge can take place. I turn to amendment 16. We agree that a young person turning 18 is at an important transition point in their care and treatment, which usually involves the young person being transferred to adult services. Under the Bill, the responsible clinician is already required to review a person’s care and treatment plan following any change in their condition or circumstances that they consider significant. The transition to adult services clearly represents a significant change in circumstances, which rightly instigates a review of the patient’s plan by the responsible clinician. We intend to make that expectation explicit in the code of practice. In line with existing care standards and guidelines, we will also underline the importance of planning in advance of a patient’s transition to adult services and of collaboration between clinical teams, as well as other measures that seek to minimise disruption to the young person’s care and treatment journey. We support the intention of amendment 17. However, there are existing provisions, both within the Bill and across other legislation and guidance, that aim to safeguard children and young carers. For example, statutory guidance on working together to safeguard children already sets out the importance of health and social care professionals acting proactively and in collaboration with other agencies to identify and respond to children in need, including where a parent requires mental health support. There is also an existing statutory duty on local authorities to assess the support needs of young carers. The Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill contains provisions that will strengthen multi-agency working with children and families, helping to ensure that local authorities deliver on their child protection duties. We also plan to reflect key requirements in the revised code of practice to ensure that children and young carers are safeguarded. We understand that sometimes, when a person is detained, young carers are not appropriately identified. To address that, we plan to encourage individuals to use their advance choice document to ensure that the appropriate services are made aware. Under the Bill, carers should be consulted on the preparation and review of a patient’s care and treatment plan, where appropriate. We will include guidance in the code to ensure that young carers are appropriately involved and supported. We therefore believe that an additional duty would be unnecessary. Clause 21 will introduce statutory care and treatment plans for all patients detained under the Mental Health Act, including patients under community treatment orders and those who are subject to guardianship. Only those who are subject to extremely short detention periods, such as those lasting a matter of days, are excluded. The clause sets out in broad terms what the plans should cover, and provides the Secretary of State with the power to specify the contents in regulations. Setting out the requirements in primary legislation and further details in regulations will ensure that every patient’s care and treatment plan is comprehensive and that there is consistency across plans, which we know is not currently the case. Under the clause, the clinician must prepare and review the plan with the patient and their close contacts, such as family members, carers or their nominated person. That helps to ensure that the patient’s wishes, feelings, beliefs and values shape the plan, thereby increasing the likelihood of their engagement with it. To help to ensure that the plan is kept up to date, the clause specifies important trigger points at which the patient’s clinician should review the plan with a view to potentially revising it. Beyond providing a clear strategy for how the patient will be supported towards their recovery, it is envisaged that the plan will provide an important audit trail of key decisions made by the patient’s responsible clinician. To embed those new statutory requirements in practice, the clause will place requirements on the managers of a hospital, or the relevant authority, to monitor compliance with the duties. Sir Simon Wessely described statutory care and treatment plans as the cornerstone of the proposed reforms, delivering on each and every one of the guiding principles. For the reasons that I have outlined, I hope that hon. Members will not press their amendments and will support clause 21.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  We have piloted culturally appropriate advocacy models, which ran up to March 2025. An evaluation of the pilot will be published in the summer, and that will feed into the evidence base for the impact and deliverability of culturally appropriate advocacy at local level. We will use the learnings from our culturally appropriate advocacy pilots to inform our understanding of how to increase uptake of advocacy for community treatment order patients from black communities, who are disproportionately likely to be put on a CTO. A lot of that evaluation and investigation work is happening, and I am sure that hon. Members across this Committee will read the findings in the summer with great interest. The change in the criteria for a CTO is intended to reduce the number of inappropriate community treatment orders being given, reducing restrictions on patients and helping to protect against the disproportionate use of coercion among racialised communities. Only those for whom there is a risk of serious harm and who will benefit therapeutically should be subject to a community treatment order, and it should be removed when it no longer provides benefit. I want to touch on some of the questions that have been asked. The Opposition spokesman asked about the number of CTOs being overturned at tribunal. According to Care Quality Commission data from 2023-24, 129 discharges by tribunal took place following 4,438 applications against CTOs. I emphasise that people are often discharged without going to tribunal, so those numbers are not a full picture. On evaluation, we are developing a monitoring and evaluation strategy for the Mental Health Act, as the Bill will become once—one hopes—it gets Royal Assent. It will be important to monitor new processes such as discharges and changes to CTOs to assess whether reforms are being delivered as intended and to monitor uptake among patients. There was also a question about racial equalities, but I think I have answered that. With those remarks, I hope that the Committee will support Government amendment 30 and that the hon. Member for Guildford will withdraw amendment 11.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  The clause will simply clarify existing legislation concerning the second opinion appointed doctor so that it more closely reflects current practice and terminology. It sets out the role of the regulatory authority in appointing a second opinion appointed doctor and the criteria that the second opinion appointed doctor must meet, and it updates terminology so that it is more in keeping with that used by practitioners. I therefore commend clause 12 to the Committee.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  It is a little bit dangerous for us to get into a numbers game, because I do not think it is particularly useful or productive to say, “As a result of the changes that we are making, we think it will decrease by x number or increase by y number”, because, by definition, we do not have a crystal ball and we cannot be sure. However, the impact assessment for the Bill— I do not have a copy of that with me right now—includes a range of scenarios and some predictions of the impact and associated costs that go with that. Those are important considerations that led us to the conclusion that we need a 10-year implementation period. It is not just about capacity in the communities and the community mental health services; it is also about capacity in the court system, the number of judges and the whole additional capacity and workload required for that, which is an important part of those considerations.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I can absolutely confirm that the Government’s understanding of the way in which the system must function is that, if any risk at all to public safety is perceived, that must be documented. The risk to others and self must be assessed and documented, and that then informs the care and treatment plan. It is a basic expectation of the professional management of a particular patient that any risk identified to public safety and protection must be in there. However, I take the hon. Gentleman’s point on whether or not it should be in the Bill. I will come back to him on that, because I would be rather surprised if it were not made very clear somewhere that that is a basic expectation; if it were not, that would obviously need to be looked at, but I am reasonably confident that it is. The hon. Gentleman asked whether the second opinion doctor would confirm that the checklist had been complied with by the approved clinician: yes, and that must be documented in the second opinion doctor’s certificate. He also asked whether we will support clinicians with statutory guidance. Yes, we will provide guidance on the delivery of the checklist in the code of practice. Question put and agreed to . Clause 11 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill .

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I was intending to come to the questions that the hon. Gentleman and others asked, but as he has asked that now, I can tell him that the revised detention criteria and definition of appropriate medical treatment do not exclude patients with uncertain treatment outcomes, as long as they have a psychiatric disorder. Treatment must offer a reasonable prospect of benefit, considering both its purpose and likely outcome. The introduction of the principle of therapeutic benefit is aimed at ensuring that care and treatment provided under the Act will promote recovery and facilitate patients to get better so that they can be discharged as soon as possible. That applies right across the board on the basis of the psychiatric disorder. I will now turn to clause 9. Sections 50 to 53 of the 1983 Act provide for the remission of prisoners or other detainees with severe mental health needs back to their prison or other place of detention; or, where relevant, direct their release where no effective treatment for the mental disorder can be given. Those provisions differ slightly from the detention criteria in the Bill, because in practice this cohort of patients may refuse to engage with treatment or behave in a disruptive manner such that treatment cannot practically be given. Clause 9 standardises the type of treatment to “appropriate medical treatment” for consistency with the rest of the Act, which will allow the therapeutic benefit changes in clause 8 to flow through to transfer decisions. This change has no other practical or legal effect and is technical in nature.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for her expertise and am pleased to hear that she feels reassured by my remarks. It is absolutely the Government’s ambition to bring more consistency and clarity to this area. A number of hon. Members have raised issues around racial disparities; I plan to come on to that. That is a specific focus, I know, for her and other colleagues. More broadly, this is about ensuring that the CTO system is proportionate, well regulated and managed on the basis of a patient-centric system. We therefore wish to remove clause 6(3), as we do not think that it is necessary. It duplicates some provisions in the Bill or, in the case of the review periods, conflicts with existing renewal periods, and under the current drafting it is not clear how the two would interact. Where there are differences, the current provisions are more appropriate, for example in requiring a community clinician to be involved in all decision making. Let me move on to clause 6 in its entirety. CTOs allow individuals detained under the Mental Health Act to be discharged into the community, under specific conditions, to ensure continued treatment. CTOs aim to maintain contact with mental health services to provide support and prevent relapse. Patients on CTOs can be recalled to hospital under that Act in certain circumstances. The main purpose of introducing CTOs was to improve care for higher-risk patients and to enhance public safety. We believe that community treatment orders remain necessary in a small number of cases to ensure continued treatment and to protect both patients and the public. However, the independent review rightly noted that considerably more people than expected were being put on a community treatment order—about 5,500 people a year—and that there were racial disparities in the use of CTOs. Clause 6 therefore amends the community treatment order risk criteria in line with the new detention criteria set out in clause 5. It is now the case that, to be put on a community treatment order, the patient must be at risk of serious harm and there must be a reasonable prospect of therapeutic benefit for the patient.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  On the Opposition spokesman’s question about a specific timeframe, the wording of the clause— “as soon as reasonably practicable”— is a sufficient and fairly strong steer to the system that avoids the need to tie our hands with a specific timeframe. Consistency, training and monitoring are going to be important elements of the code of practice. We need to ensure that those questions are answered and that those are put in place. On the hon. Gentleman’s question about the CQC, we are grateful to Dr Penny Dash and Professor Mike Richards for their recommendations, which the CQC has accepted in full. We are greatly encouraged by the reforms it has made so far, and we particularly welcome the appointment of Dr Arun Chopra as the CQC’s first chief inspector of mental health, which will improve the voice of mental health patients and help to better uphold their rights. We are confident that those changes will ensure that the CQC is better placed to regulate mental services. Question put and agreed to. Clause 12 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 13 Medicine etc: treatment conflicting with a decision by or on behalf of a patient Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  The classification of which part III patients the clause applies to is at the heart of the shadow Minister’s question about ensuring that everything is co-ordinated and we do not have conflicting reports and timeframes. I think that that classification is clear, but to recap, the changes will apply to the following patients detained under part III of the Act: patients who have been transferred from guardianship to hospital, and patients whose community treatment order has been revoked and more than six months has passed since their original hospital order was made. That classification is important. It is also important to bear in mind that the clause is all about maintaining the current frequency. We are not really injecting a new reporting rhythm; it is about maintaining the current frequency, but having that clarity around the classification of patients, as I outlined. Question put and agreed to . Clause 16 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill . Clause s 17 and 18 ordered to stand part of the Bill . Clause 19 Remote assessment for treatment Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  The numbers that I gave the hon. Gentleman earlier were things that had happened, rather than gazing into the future and reading the tea leaves, but I will do as he asks, and I will ask officials to take him up on the point about the capacity of the legal and judicial system, in particular the tribunals. On the questions the shadow Minister asked about retrospective application, we are supporting the tribunal to make decisions about whether a person should continue to be detained or subject to a community treatment order by providing clear and consistent criteria that focuses on the need for there to be a risk of serious harm and a reasonable prospect that the patient is benefiting from their detention in order justify continued detention for treatment under part 3 of the Mental Health Act 1983. As has been said, that will apply to everybody who is currently detained. The key point is the balance of two things: harm to the patient him or herself and harm to others, and therapeutic benefit. Those will be the guiding lights of this entire process. I hope that I have managed to respond; I did not have a huge amount of time to take note of all the points, because there were not very many speakers on this clause. If there is anything I have not addressed, we can of course do so in writing. Question put and agreed to. Clause 7 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 8 Appropriate medical treatment: therapeutic benefit

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  The content of the Bill, in this context, has been produced on the basis of engagement with the second opinion appointed doctor service and clinical experts. That was partly around the decision to shorten the period to two months, as that allows time for medication to take effect, so that the appropriateness of the medication for the individual can be properly assessed. Is that what the hon. Member is talking about—that there might be confusion about whether or not medication should continue to be administered?

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I will start by commenting on amendment 12, which was tabled by the hon. Member for Winchester. We do not consider the amendment necessary, as section 13(2) of the Mental Health Act 1983 already requires an “approved mental health professional” to consider all the “circumstances of the case” before making an application for admission, which could include the appropriateness of the setting. Clause 8 embeds the principle of therapeutic benefit into the Bill by providing a new definition of “appropriate medical treatment”. That requires that there must be “a reasonable prospect” of therapeutic benefit to justify detention for treatment, and that medical must be “appropriate in a person’s case”. We would expect a setting in which someone is going to be detained to be considered as a part of those considerations. The code of practice already states that patients should be offered treatment and care in safe, supportive and therapeutic environments, so that also addresses that point. I turn to amendments 44 and 45. We recognise the significant impact that childhood trauma can have on a person’s psychological wellbeing throughout their life. Mental disorder is defined in the 1983 Act as “any disorder or disability of the mind”, and that is already broad enough to include the impact of childhood trauma. Clause 8 requires decision makers to take into account “the nature and degree of the disorder”, what is “appropriate” in the person’s case and “all other circumstances” when considering whether medical treatment has a reasonable prospect of therapeutic benefit. That could include consideration of childhood trauma. Although we recognise that childhood trauma may be a factor for many patients, it will not be a factor for all patients. It is critical that consideration of appropriate treatment is tailored to, and reflects, individual experiences and needs. All treatment interventions should include the aim of minimising distress and promoting psychological wellbeing. As well as legislative requirements, it is vital that all aspects of care in in-patient settings should be trauma-informed and that patients are always put at the heart of effective, compassionate care. That expectation is set out in NHS England’s “Culture of care standards for mental health inpatient services” and will be further emphasised in the revised Mental Health Act code of practice. I turn to clause 8 stand part. The clause strengthens the concept of therapeutic benefit in the Mental Health Act to ensure that patients are detained for treatment or placed on a community treatment order only when there is a reasonable prospect they will benefit from their treatment. The current criteria for detentions under section 3 of the 1983 Act is that “appropriate medical treatment is available”, and the definition of medical treatment focuses only on the purpose of the treatment. In practice, that means that clinicians may not consider whether the treatment under section 3 will be effective. If we are going to deprive people of their liberty, it is vital that detention is of therapeutic benefit to them, regardless of whether the patient is detained for treatment under part II or part III of the Act, so the new therapeutic benefit criteria apply to both. Under the Bill, for treatment to be considered appropriate, there will need to be a reasonable prospect that the patient will benefit from it. The therapeutic benefit criteria will apply at the point of detention and renewal to patients detained under section 3 in part II of the Act, patients on a community treatment order when they are first subject to the order and at the point of renewal, and all part III patients. The clause also retains the definition of the purpose of “medical treatment” in the 1983 Act: “to alleviate, or prevent a worsening of, the disorder or one or more of its symptoms or manifestations.” A focus on therapeutic benefit will ensure that patients receive the care and treatment they need to support their recovery and enable discharge when it is safe for them to leave hospital.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and we could go into the question he has just raised in a profound way, because the social determinants of ill health are such an important part of the picture. Many people in our communities are dealing with all sorts of incredibly challenging and traumatic issues in their lives, often driven by a whole range of social determinants. We have to recognise that there is a need to build capacity in the system as well. I am pleased that the Government reconfirmed in the spending review yesterday the 8,500 additional mental health specialists in the system, a mental health trained specialist in every school, 24/7 mental health hubs being opened around the country and £26 million being put into opening mental health crisis centres around the country. The fundamental drive of the Government is to move from sickness to prevention. We want to build a preventive state, and the mental health part of that is vital, for the reason my hon. Friend has just elucidated.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I will do that. Question put and agreed to. Clause 13 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 14 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 15 Electro-convulsive therapy etc Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  It happened—it was real!

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  May I say what a pleasure it is to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock? I found her contribution incredibly insightful. She is a tremendous asset to the Committee and indeed to the parliamentary Labour party, we are fortunate to have her with us on the Committee. The Opposition spokesman mentioned a number of cases, including Nicola Edgington and Valdo Calocane, so I will take the opportunity to express my condolences to those who were so terribly affected by those tragic events. We are in ongoing engagement with the families of Barnaby Webber, Grace O’Malley-Kumar and Ian Coates, and it is appropriate that we take a moment as a Committee to reflect on the terrible tragedy they have gone through and to express our condolences to them. The Opposition spokesman’s question was, broadly speaking, about risk and public safety. I will make a number of points on that. First, the clinical checklist does not bind clinicians to following the wishes of patients; it requires that clinicians consider them when deciding on the patient’s treatment, but, by definition, a checklist is not binding. If a preferred treatment is not clinically appropriate or feasible, clinicians must explain why and, where possible, discuss alternatives with the patient or their loved ones. The purpose of the checklist is to ensure that the patient’s wishes play a more central role in clinical decision making, as we are aware that that is not always the case. However, the checklist does not bind the clinician to the patient’s wishes, nor does it prevent the use of compulsory treatment. We recognise that compulsory treatment is sometimes necessary to get a person well again, including by managing the potential risk that they might pose to themselves or others. My other point is that there is not a binary choice between consulting and engaging with the patient, and enhancing and consolidating public safety; very often, the two go together. One of the learning points from the tragic Nottingham incident is that there was not enough consultation with Mr Calocane’s family. If there had been, there might have been opportunities to note his episodic behaviour and the fact that he was not always taking his medication. Had the family been better consulted, it would have enhanced public protection and safety. It is important that we do not say that family consultation and engagement with the patient are opposed to public protection—in fact, they are two sides of the same coin.

• 12 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  The purpose of clause 16 is twofold. First, it seeks to maintain the status quo around when the responsible clinician must report to the regulatory authority on the patient’s treatment and their condition. Currently, the Mental Health Act requires that the responsible clinician give a treatment report to the regulatory authority when they renew the patient’s detention. However, changes to clause 28 that increase the frequency at which the clinician must renew a patient’s detention would have unintentionally increased the frequency of treatment reports for patients under certain sections. Clause 16 will prevent that, thereby avoiding unnecessarily placing additional burden on clinicians or the regulator. Secondly, the clause will give the regulatory authority the power to request a report on a patient’s treatment and their condition, where they are consenting to treatment. That will expand an important safeguard to individuals who are potentially vulnerable and may benefit from additional oversight. I therefore commend the clause to the Committee.

• 10 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  I can give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. We are moving to a nuanced position that is about defining where there are co-occurring conditions and where there are not. I think everybody recognises that that is, by definition, a complex process, so the training and the code of practice that go around it will be vital.

• 10 Jun 2025 · Mental Health Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  I do not know whether I will be able to answer the hon. Gentleman’s question in its entirety, because quite a lot of that is being led by my colleagues in the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government—in the English devolution Bill, for example. On the part of his question relating to the Department of Health and Social Care, we came to the view following the general election last year that NHS England was an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy. We think it is important that there is a clear line of accountability from the Secretary of State to Ministers, to ICBs, to trusts and to the system per se for delivery. That line of accountability was being blurred by NHS England, which is why we have removed it from the equation. The hon. Gentleman is right that there are a lot of moving parts, but, by definition, a reform agenda creates change and some turbulence. We believe that is the only way we will get the system to where we need it to be so that we can deliver the three big shifts in our 10-year health plan: the shifts from hospital to community, from sickness to prevention and from analogue to digital. Many of the questions he is asking will be answered in the 10-year plan. He does not have long to wait for that to be published; it is coming very soon. I reiterate that the principle underlying all of this is about empowering, devolving and giving agency to those closest to the communities they serve, because they are best placed to deliver. That all has to fit into the Bill, but the fundamental principle underpinning the Bill is the right one: it is about devolution, and about being patient-centric. The Bill deals with a cohort of people whose needs should drive the services that we design and deliver. Question put and agreed to. Clause 3 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Schedule 1 agreed to. Clause 4 People with autism or learning disability