Stephen Gethins MP: speeches 2025

Speeches

• 2 Jul 2025 · Spending Review 2025: Scotland · Hansard source

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  I know the Minister was asked a lot of questions, and I thank her for that answer, but what I asked was whether she would come to the University of Dundee to see for herself the profound impact of these policies. There has been a good Scottish bail-out from the Scottish Government, which is welcome, but will a Home Office Minister come to Dundee?

• 2 Jul 2025 · Spending Review 2025: Scotland · Hansard source

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  It is a pleasure to be with you this morning, Sir John. I congratulate the hon. Member for Dunfermline and Dollar (Graeme Downie) on securing the debate and on making the points that he made. The hon. Member, like other Labour Members, in particular, seems to like talking about the Scottish Government, who are not answerable to this place, rather than the UK Government, who are. To be fair, I am not surprised. We saw after last night’s debacle that they would rather talk about anything but the Labour Government, who have delivered very little over the past year apart from chaos and a continuation of failed Conservative policies—not much change there. The fact is that this place still has a profound impact on the Scottish Parliament. It is where the majority of its budget comes from and it has a huge impact on the policies that can be pursued in the Scottish Parliament, as the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) will be well aware as a founding member of that institution, which he rightly highlighted. Scotland is still hampered by migration policies and the hostile environment, as we have witnessed recently at the University of Dundee, whose losses are overwhelmingly attributable to the drop in international students as a direct result of those policies.

• 2 Jul 2025 · Spending Review 2025: Scotland · Hansard source

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  The hon. Member mentioned low growth. We know that growth has been hampered by our being outside the single market and the customs union—that is not just my analysis but that of most economists—so can she tell me why Scottish Labour has abandoned the policy it adopted after the Brexit referendum of rejoining the single market and the customs union?

• 2 Jul 2025 · Spending Review 2025: Scotland · Hansard source

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  On that point, gladly.

• 2 Jul 2025 · Spending Review 2025: Scotland · Hansard source

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  The hon. Member, as usual, makes a powerful case for his constituency, but I am surprised that he is repeating the Labour figure of £9.1 billion, which has already been heavily criticised by the Fraser of Allander Institute. Did Labour get it wrong or did the Fraser of Allander Institute get it wrong? I just want clarification on that point of fact. I would hate for the hon. Member to be using dodgy Labour figures.

• 2 Jul 2025 · Spending Review 2025: Scotland · Hansard source

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  Will the hon. Member give way?

• 2 Jul 2025 · Spending Review 2025: Scotland · Hansard source

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  I absolutely acknowledge the impact that inflation and interest rates have had, and the Liz Truss Budget had a huge impact on small businesses as well as mortgage holders—again, a direct consequence of policies that were made here. I would have thought, and the hon. Lady would surely concede, that one would therefore abandon Conservative spending rules, but we have yet to see that. Another huge consequence of Conservative rule that Labour has taken over, and that is having a huge impact on small businesses, is leaving the European Union. I want to tackle this head on. I was surprised to hear the hon. Member for Dunfermline and Dollar talk about foreign embassies, when he knows fine well that the Welsh, the Northern Irish and the Scots have overseas representative offices. I was astonished to hear him seek to embrace the insularity that I associate with the Conservative party and Reform. Scotland has one of the highest rates of foreign direct investment anywhere in the UK, and we can all encourage and be happy about that. I agree with the hon. Member about ferry connections, and he was right to highlight the work done on that by his predecessor, Douglas Chapman. Surely, we should encourage connectivity with the rest of the European Union, but Labour continues to follow the Conservatives’ mantra of a hard Brexit.

• 2 Jul 2025 · Spending Review 2025: Scotland · Hansard source

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  I thank the Minister for giving way; she is being generous with her time. She talks about resetting the relationship, but I have one thing in particular to ask. I am sure that she and her colleagues think that last night was a triumph with the welfare reforms, but they will have a direct impact on the Scottish Government by pushing people into poverty. What assessment has the Minister made of last night’s vote and its impact on the devolution settlement?

• 2 Jul 2025 · Spending Review 2025: Scotland · Hansard source

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  The hon. Member is very kind in apparently conceding next year’s election already. I am quite surprised by that; he may have given up on it, but I think we should all be competing. The hon. Member talks about the Scottish border. The border is obviously devolved to Westminster, so because we are holding Westminster to account, I ask the Minister to tackle the border issue as well. We are right to have greater connectivity and to be bringing down barriers with our European partners, so why on earth are we not going back into the single market and the customs union? After all, that was the compromise that Scottish Labour itself backed in the Scottish Parliament in the aftermath of the Brexit referendum. What on earth has gone so right that Labour has abandoned that policy and embraced the Conservative policy? I would be astonished to find out, and I wonder whether the Minister can tell us. Some thought and analysis would be helpful. The real-terms increase in the budget looks like 0.8%—lower than the UK departmental average of 1.5%. That does not sound like much but would mean £1.1 billion less to spend by 2028-29. As I have mentioned to the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross, the Fraser of Allendar Institute has called out Labour MPs’ claims as “neither transparent nor helpful”. This place matters. As I said, we know that the Scottish Government have a national insurance shortfall as a consequence of the policies being brought in by Westminster, and we have not even got round to last night’s welfare changes, which left the Scottish Labour party high and dry. With the honourable exception of the hon. Member for Glenrothes and Mid Fife (Richard Baker), who, as I understand it, signed the original motion but did not follow through in the debate, Scottish Labour was marched up to the top of the hill by the Prime Minister to be left high and dry. We were told that the welfare reforms proposed before all the changes yesterday would push 150,000 more people into poverty. A Labour Government pushing more people into poverty—astonishing. Although there have been changes, because of the profound impact on the job of the Scottish Government, whose Scottish child payment is helping to reduce poverty, they are still hampered by what goes on here. If the Minister prioritises nothing else that I have said, I ask her to prioritise this: where are we with the welfare changes and how many people does she now expect to be pushed into poverty?

• 2 Jul 2025 · Spending Review 2025: Scotland · Hansard source

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  As I mentioned the hon. Member, it is only fair to give way.

• 2 Jul 2025 · Spending Review 2025: Scotland · Hansard source

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  You are quite right, Sir John. It surprises me that the Labour party does not want to talk about a Labour Government, but then the fact that they lost, or nearly lost, that kind of vote after less than a year gives us some idea of the impact of what has happened over the past year. This is my appeal to the Labour party: why not do some of the things it actually believes in and try to bring about real change, be that on Brexit or the fiscal rules, rather than just being a continuation of the Conservative party? The Government cannot continue to ask the Scottish Government to offset the damage done by Westminster on Women Against State Pension Inequality, as was called for, winter fuel, the two-child cap, the bedroom tax and so on. The Scottish Labour leader said that he would not bring in any of last night’s welfare changes, once again expecting Scotland to offset the damage that has been done here. Whether I like it or not, this place still matters to what goes on in Scotland. I ask the Minister to look at these areas. Can she give us answers on the Acorn project, which I will chuck in as well—we know how much money is going south of the border, so does she know how much will go north of the border, and in particular on the welfare changes, given the significant impact on the Scottish Government’s budget?

• 2 Jul 2025 · Spending Review 2025: Scotland · Hansard source

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  Given that we sit in the UK Parliament, does the hon. Member concede that the numbers she mentions are absolutely dwarfed by the billions on Brexit, the hundreds of millions on Rwanda, and the billions blown by the Truss Budget, all of which will have had a material impact on the amount of money that the UK Government have to give up to Scotland? Furthermore, does she agree that the Scottish Government offsetting welfare cuts, the bedroom tax, and child poverty, as they have done—and I believe the Liberal Democrats backed that—was a good use of money?

• 4 Jun 2025 · Veterans · Hansard source

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  I join colleagues in congratulating Aberdeen FC, despite the impact of their victory on my beloved Dundee United. I also congratulate Arbroath FC on securing the Scottish league one championship title. The Scottish Government have reinstated the winter fuel payment for up to 88,000 pension-age veterans in Scotland, but the Prime Minister has said that it was right to slash the winter fuel payment. Was the Prime Minister right to slash it?

• 4 Jun 2025 · Veterans · Hansard source

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  I see that we are not going to get a straight answer out of the Minister, just as the people in Hamilton did not get a straight answer out of Labour’s candidate. That will be why Labour is sinking without a trace. Let me put it this way: does the Minister think that the Prime Minister was right to slash the winter fuel payment for up to 1 million veterans across the UK?

• 22 May 2025 · Local Government Boundary Commission for England · Hansard source

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  I am not aware of such conversations at the moment, but I will raise that with the commission on her behalf.

• 22 May 2025 · Local Government Boundary Commission for England · Hansard source

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  The hon. Member raises a good point and has some good inside information. Some £500,000 has been allocated, but the committee will keep that under periodic review in co-operation with the commission.

• 22 May 2025 · Local Government Boundary Commission for England · Hansard source

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  The commission’s approach to managing its work programme supports it with accommodating work arising from the “English Devolution” White Paper while still delivering periodic electoral reviews. The committee has agreed to some additional resourcing for the commission for this financial year. That will help to respond swiftly and effectively to any request for assistance in relation to the development of electoral and boundary arrangements for newly established unitary authorities.

• 21 May 2025 · Immigration · Hansard source

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  May I commend the Minister for saying that we are talking about people? In a recent debate in this place, I mentioned that Lord Alf Dubs had used the “outrageous” to describe what the Prime Minister had said. He did not. He said that the Prime Minister’s words were “regrettable”. I was wrong about that. Does the Minister realise that words matter when we are talking about people? We can have different views on migration policy, but we are talking about people. I commend those words that she used just now, and I encourage other members of the Government to do likewise.

• 13 May 2025 · UK-EU Summit · Hansard source

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  I put on record my thanks to Irene Oldfather. On a very hard issue—and we have seen today that it is very difficult—she is doing something extraordinarily constructive, and I think we can all learn from her work.

• 13 May 2025 · UK-EU Summit · Hansard source

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  The hon. Member makes an excellent case. To his credit, he set out four clear points, which is more than the Government or the main Opposition party have done. Members across this House have previously said that a democracy fails to be a democracy if people do not have the ability to change their minds. Does he rule out ever rejoining the EU?

• 13 May 2025 · UK-EU Summit · Hansard source

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  It is good to contribute to the debate. On the matter of Churchill, I am of course one of his successors in Dundee, where he was defeated by the only prohibitionist ever elected. It was after his defeat that he went on to make his speeches about Europe, after he had joined the Conservative party. I suspect that I will in a moment slip into the same levels of exasperation expressed by the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Ms Creasy)—I hope that she does not mind my saying that we agree on so much—but before I do, let me thank the Conservative party for bringing this motion. I have to say, I salute their—how should one put it—courage in securing the debate. Nobody is saying that the Conservatives’ Brexit has been a success. In that context, I feel that they are leading with their chin today. Nobody is arguing that it is something that has gone well. Nobody is arguing that it has become a triumph. Rather, we are debating and discussing today how to tackle a problem that has been well set out by the Government. I am sorry to say that Brexit continues to cast a spell over the political classes at Westminster. We have heard a rerun of some of the arguments and some of the falsehoods about the European Union, but let us talk about the evidence—I will be brief, as it has been well covered. There is the 4% drop in GDP that the Treasury has outlined, and the 15% drop in trade that was part of the Budget documents. The UK has now lost more than it ever contributed financially, with absolutely nothing in return. There is the loss of jobs, the loss of regional structural funds that were never replaced despite the promises, the loss of opportunities for SMEs and, critically, the loss of opportunities for our young people. I can remember when the Brexiteers told us that lots of countries would follow the UK out the door. Nobody has followed the UK, and I wonder why. It leans into the sense of British exceptionalism that we hear time and again. The UK has been left impoverished as a direct consequence of those arguments. I have heard the warm words from Labour Members about wanting to be closer to Europe, but they are fundamentally grabbing hold of a hard Tory Brexit. I fail to see why a Labour Government do not stand up for Europe more. Rather than try to imitate failed Conservative policies and failed Reform policies—let us not forget that Reform has a track record, and it is not a good one—Labour should take them on, on that track record.

• 13 May 2025 · UK-EU Summit · Hansard source

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  I will concede the point. I know what the right hon. Gentleman believes in. I was not surprised that he wanted to take me on not on the substance of what I said but rather on some of the semantics, because as the Secretary of State for Scotland said, a democracy ceases to be a democracy when it ceases to have the ability to change its mind. My appeal would be this: yes, I believe in independence; I believe that the European Union provides a model that the UK Union does not. That is something I believe in, and some Members disagree with me and I respect them for that, and I know that Scottish Labour Members disagree with me on that, and I respect them for that as well. What I struggle with is that we know this is a bad deal with Europe. We know that staying outside the customs union and the single market is making us poorer every day. I would encourage Members to stand up and put the case of what they believe in, because that is the way to return respect back into politics—not repeat what has been said in the past, but truly look to the future.

• 13 May 2025 · UK-EU Summit · Hansard source

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  Before I move on to the Treasury and some of the right hon. Gentleman’s points, I will give way to him.

• 13 May 2025 · UK-EU Summit · Hansard source

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  Seventeen billion is less than half the amount lost from the public finances. Those are not my figures, but the Labour Mayor of London’s figures. That is money lost without getting anything back in return, and the Scottish Government has lost £300 million in money that has not come from regional structural funds. Let me turn to devolution and sovereignty. The EU is a Union fit for the 21st century. The UK is barely a Union fit for the 18th century, because it has not been modernised since. We have a Brexit deal that ripped up the devolution settlement, which Scottish Labour and others spoke out against but which has now been imposed on the devolved Administrations in a way that the EU could never do to its member states. I remind Members that not one of the 27 independent, sovereign member states of the EU consider themselves any less independent or sovereign for being a member of the European Union—not one of them. Just one did, and it is this British nationalist exceptionalism that is so utterly damaging to everybody in the UK. The most sovereign country in the world is North Korea, because we give up a tiny bit of sovereignty with deals. All these other states that see themselves as sovereign— [ Interruption. ] The hon. Member for Spelthorne (Lincoln Jopp) talks of Ukraine. Ukraine wants to join the EU. He talks of democracy. The democrats in Georgia and Moldova drape themselves in European flags because they see that as the future of the rule of law, democracy and greater wealth for their country. Every country that has joined the EU got better off. The one country that left got worse off, and its citizens had fewer rights. We all have to recognise that the EU is a security actor, and a majority of European states now see the EU and NATO as the twin pillars of security. Those sovereign states see that. While I welcome the UK Government’s steadfast support for Ukraine—both the current and previous Administrations—we are not realistic about the challenges we face. Putin’s Russia fears the EU. That is why we saw the initial war in Ukraine in 2014, because of the EU accession agreement. We know that, and everyone else gets it except those in the United Kingdom. The EU provides food security and energy security for its members, and sitting outside leaves us more isolated and less secure. Why is the UK so exceptional? What makes the UK so special? How is it that everybody else has got it wrong, but the UK has somehow got it right? It is a piece of nonsense that is damaging us all. Turning to young people, I am getting tired of hearing Labour talk about youth mobility schemes. I would like the Minister to tell me whether a youth mobility scheme will be put in place, and then say how it will compare with the free movement we all enjoyed when we were in the EU. We are leaving younger generations with fewer rights and opportunities than we ourselves enjoyed, and that is a failure of our political generation—an abject failure. I am sorry to say that the Prime Minister’s rhetoric yesterday feeds into that. That he was called out by Lord Dubs, a Labour Member of the House of Lords, and yet praised by the leader of Alternative for Germany should surely give Labour Members some cause for reflection—some cause to reflect on how others are seeing them right now. I would expect such rhetoric from Reform and others, but I did not expect it from the Labour party and I say to Labour Members, “I’m sorry, I oppose you sometimes and you stood against me, but I did not expect that from the Labour party.” The worst part of this is that we are getting it from a Labour Government who do not really believe in what they are doing. I know that from working with them over the years. They do not believe in the damage this is doing. What is damaging us in politics right now is that people are standing up for things they do not really believe in. They do not say what they believe in. They might say, “I believe in leaving the European Union”— (Interruption.) The right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) talks about Parliament—I just heard that—in a Parliament where we do not have an idea of British sovereignty. The definition of Scottish sovereignty—I would encourage him to read MacCormick v. Lord Advocate—is different from the idea of English sovereignty, because the supremacy of Parliament does not exist.

• 13 May 2025 · UK-EU Summit · Hansard source

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  Will the Minister give way?