Stephen Doughty MP: speeches

Speeches

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  I thank my hon. Friend for his observation. The former Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for Braintree (Mr Cleverly), appears to be on his way out, but he recognised, as did many others in the last Administration, that we needed to secure a long-term, sure and legal footing for this base to meet the security needs of ourselves and our allies. We are the Government who came in and got the deal done.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  Let me first thank my hon. Friend for his service for our country and its national security—and, indeed, thank all new Members who have served in our armed forces. I completely agree with his comments: we are indeed protecting our national security and putting matters on a secure footing

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  Mr Speaker, I have known the right hon. Gentleman a long time, and he knows that he can come and speak to me about these matters at any point. Let me be clear: we will work very closely with the incoming US Administration, and we are working closely with the current US Administration. This agreement had support across the national security apparatus of the United States. Otherwise, we would never have entered into an arrangement. The previous Government recognised the threats to the long-term operation of the base, which is why they started the negotiations in the first place, but this Government did the deal. Diego Garcia is important, but it is not at risk—it is more secure as a result of the deal. What the hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage) is suggesting is simply not the case. The hon. Gentleman mentioned the Chagossians. What happened to them was completely wrong and shameful—that has been agreed on all sides of the House. I have engaged with the Chagossian community on a number of occasions. He will also recognise that there are a range of views across the Chagossian community, including those who support the deal. We have made sure that their interests are at the heart of the arrangement, whether in the trust fund, the unilateral arrangements, the continued commitment to UK citizenship for Chagossians, their ability to return to visit all the islands or the resettlement programme that Mauritius will restart under the treaty. I am confident that this deal is the right thing for our national security, for the Chagossian community and for our allies and partners.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  I totally agree with my hon. Friend, who I know takes a keen interest in the overseas territories, in particular Gibraltar. I totally agree with her about the new National Security Adviser. He is a remarkable individual with a huge track record in government of making deals and getting things done, which I know is appreciated by our friends on the opposite side of the Atlantic, too. He is somebody who takes the national security of this country extraordinarily seriously, so I completely agree with her characterisation.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  The hon. Gentleman will surely know that the convention is that we deal with one Administration at a time. We have very positive and warm engagement with President-elect Trump and Vice President-elect Vance’s incoming Administration. We look forward to discussing these matters with them, and we will engage with the United States in the usual way. We are absolutely clear that this treaty is in the UK-US national security interests. It meets the security concerns, and it puts the base on a secure footing into the next century.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  First, I welcome the shadow Foreign Secretary to her place in this Chamber. We were in a Committee earlier today, but I welcome her to her place. I have always had good engagement with her on issues in the past and she is right to ask important questions, but the first thing I need to do is correct the idea that we are somehow giving up the base. That is exactly the opposite of what we are doing. We are securing the future of the base. The base will continue to operate. It will continue to operate as it has done. The right hon. Lady asks an important question about security guarantees in relation to the outer islands. There will be clear commitments in the treaty for robust security arrangements, including preventing the presence of foreign security forces on the outer islands. We simply would not have signed off an agreement that compromised any of our security interests or those of our allies. Indeed, this has been discussed not just at a political level in the United States, but at a deep technical level. She will know from her time in government about the nature of the special relationship and the depth of that relationship. That is why we have proceeded only on the basis that we were all satisfied with the arrangements. The right hon. Lady will be able to scrutinise those arrangements in due course, as will the House, Mr Speaker. The treaty will be presented in the usual way after signature. It will go through the usual process. [ Interruption. ] She asks when. We have just had the Mauritian election. We will be engaging with the new Administration there and seeking to present the treaty for signature. We will then present it, in all its detail, to the House. The right hon. Lady asked about an extension period. There is a provision in the treaty for an extension period after the 99-year period. The right hon. Lady asked about the Chagossians. Again, I gently say that there are a range of views in the Chagossian community. They have been expressed to me on many occasions, both before I came into government and since I have been in government. There is a range of views on the arrangement. We respect all the different views that are out there. We will continue to engage with the Chagossian community, but I am absolutely clear that there are important provisions in the deal that support the Chagossian community: their ability to return to the outer islands, the visits, the trust fund, the unilateral support we will continue to provide, and the fact that Chagossians are welcome to come here to the UK and take up British citizenship, which was an agreement under the previous Government.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  Absolutely. The importance of national security to this Government is at the heart of the missions set out by the Prime Minister, which have been put into practice by the Foreign Secretary, the Defence Secretary and me, along with others across the Government. We would never take decisions that compromised the national security of this country, or indeed that of our allies, and that is why I am confident that this decision is the right one. Let us remember that this process was begun under the last Administration, because they recognised the challenge and recognised that something needed to be done about it.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  The hon. Gentleman is right about the importance of international law and adherence to it. This Government are committed to the rule of law, including international law. One reason we wanted to get this deal done was to put that base on a secure legal footing, along with our relationships with Mauritius and other states. There has been substantial criticism from other key partners around the world about our failure to reach a settlement, which was having an impact on our interests. As I have said repeatedly, I have engaged with the Chagossians on many occasions, and we will continue to engage with them. We will continue to listen to the range of views in the community—there are a huge number—and to ensure that their interests are protected, which I am confident that the treaty does.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  I thank my hon. Friend for his important question. I can absolutely confirm that, not least through my own actions and those of my ministerial colleagues. The Minister for the Armed Forces, my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard), has visited the Falklands in the last week, where he reiterated our absolute and robust commitment to their self-determination and sovereignty. I was in Gibraltar making the same point just a few weeks ago, and I was in three of our overseas territories last week making exactly the same commitments. This Government are committed to our overseas territories. I look forward to welcoming the leaders to the Joint Ministerial Council next week to say that to them in person.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  I am afraid I fundamentally disagree with what the hon. Gentleman said. Let me be clear: this Government inherited a situation whereby the long-term secure operation of this crucial military base—he is right on that one point—was under threat. International courts were reaching judgments and international organisations were taking steps not to undermine Mauritian sovereignty. That threatened the secure and effective operation of the base. In the absence of a negotiated solution, a legally binding decision against the UK seemed inevitable. That would have threatened the secure and effective operation of the base, and that was not sustainable. [ Interruption. ] On the hon. Gentleman’s comments about the incoming US Administration, we very much look forward to working with them, and I am sure that they will be briefed on the full detail of the deal. I am confident that the details of the arrangement will allay any concerns, otherwise we would not have entered into any such arrangement in the first place. [ Interruption. ]

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  I thank my hon. Friend for his question. Obviously, I do not know the full details of his constituent’s individual case, but if he writes to me, I will of course come back to him in due course.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  The right hon. Gentleman knows that the national security interests of this country and, indeed, those of our allies transcend Administrations. We have just had an election as well; his Government started this process, and we are the ones who got it done. As for Mauritius, we welcome Dr Ramgoolam’s election. I understand that he and his Government are to be sworn in over the next few days, and we look forward to working with them to take forward this agreement. He is a friend of the UK and has deep professional and personal connections with it, having studied and worked here. I should also point out that his party, in opposition, made clear that it in no way wanted to contend with the operation of our base on Diego Garcia. We are looking forward to engaging with the new Government in the days to come.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  The hon. Gentleman knows that I have a great deal of respect for him on these matters, and for his care for people and human rights around the world. I am very clear that the treaty and the deal respect the rights and interests of the Chagossians, and we have sought to put them at the heart of the arrangements. I have engaged with many Chagossians, who have a range of views, as we have heard today. It is absolutely clear to me that we need to put their interests at the heart of the deal, and we have done that. I am confident that when they look at the detail, they will see very positive outcomes for them and their communities, and we will provide that detail to the House in due course.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  I thank the hon. Gentleman, who speaks for the Liberal Democrats, for his questions. I know that the future of the islands is hugely important to the Chagossian community. I have engaged with the Chagossian community over many, many years and since I have been in government. We have always been clear about the importance of respecting their interests. I have to say, though, that the negotiations were between the UK and Mauritius, as sovereign states, with our priority being to secure the full operation of the base on Diego Garcia. However, it is crucial that we recognise the importance of Chagossian interests within this process and we have done that. I am confident that when the full deal is presented to Parliament, which it will be in due course, there will be important provisions in there that will reassure members of the Chagossian community. As I mentioned, some of them have already been made public: the ability to visit, the ability to resettle on the outer islands, the UK citizenship guarantees, the trust fund, and, of course, the UK’s own support, which is crucial and comes on the back of the support we have provided for some time. The hon. Gentleman asked about the Sri Lankan migrants on Diego Garcia. This Government inherited a deeply troubling situation which remained unresolved under the last Administration for years after the migrants arrived on Diego Garcia, resulting in mounting legal challenges. We have been working at pace to find a solution that protects the welfare of individuals and the integrity of British territorial borders. Due to the exceptional nature of the cases, the Government have taken the decision to relocate a small number of the migrants to the UK, but that is subject to security checks. They will get a short period of permission to enter the UK, when the individuals can consider their personal circumstances and next steps.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  The Prime Minister engaged with the former Prime Minister of Mauritius and with the US Administration on these matters. We have engaged with a wide range of partners in these discussions. The right hon. Gentleman is very familiar with them, as the former Foreign Secretary who was part of that process.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  My hon. Friend has raised an important point, which has been raised in good faith by Conservative Members and, indeed, by others. I am absolutely confident that when the detail of the treaty is provided—along with other technical details, at appropriate levels—it will make clear our commitments to robust security arrangements to deal with the challenge to which he has referred, and that will include preventing the presence of foreign security forces on the outer islands. Let me reiterate that we simply would not have countenanced a deal that would in any way put our national security or that of our allies at risk.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  As someone who has been in the House a long time, the hon. Gentleman will be aware of the procedures for dealing with treaties in this place. The treaty will be signed, it will come through this place, and it will have the appropriate scrutiny—it is only right that it does and that questions are asked. I am absolutely confident that when the full details of the treaty are provided to the incoming Administration in the United States, they will be absolutely confident that it meets US and UK national security interests and is in the mutual benefit of all parties involved.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. Following two years of negotiation under three Prime Ministers, on 3 October the Government secured a deal that will protect the secure operation of the UK-US base on Diego Garcia well into the next century. The Government inherited a situation where that future was under threat. International courts were reaching judgments on the basis that Mauritius had sovereignty over the Chagos archipelago. International organisations were also taking steps not to undermine Mauritian sovereignty claims. That was not sustainable. The base on Diego Garcia plays a critical role in countering an array of threats to regional and international security. Without legal certainty, the base simply cannot operate effectively. Continued uncertainty would be a gift to our adversaries. That is why the agreement has been welcomed by all parts of the US system, and other critical regional security partners, including India. Agreeing the deal now, on our terms, meant that we were able to secure strong protections that will allow the base to operate as it has done. We have secured a deal that protects our national interests, respects the interests of our partners and upholds the international rule of law. There will be clear commitments in the treaty to robust security arrangements, including arrangements preventing the presence of foreign security forces on the outer islands, so that the base can continue to operate securely and effectively. We would not have signed off on an agreement that compromised any of our security interests, or those of our allies. The agreement will be underpinned by a financial settlement that is acceptable to both sides, and will underpin a strong, long-term partnership with Mauritius. That was crucial to securing the agreement. The Government will not scrimp on our national security; however, I am sure that the House will understand that it is not normal practice for the UK to reveal the value of payments for military bases anywhere across the globe, because to do so would put at risk their future secure operation. The deal will also deliver benefits for the Chagossian community, who were removed from the islands in the 1960s and 1970s. I know that the whole House has already expressed, and will join me in again expressing, regret for that shameful episode. Mauritius will now be able to implement a programme of resettlement to the islands, other than Diego Garcia, and we will work together to start a programme of visits for Chagossians to all the islands. The UK will finance a new trust fund for Mauritius to support Chagossians, and will provide additional Government support to those living in the UK. All Chagossians will of course remain eligible for British citizenship and free to make their home in the UK. We will work with Mauritius to ensure the continued protection of the islands’ unique environment, with the shared objective of securing and protecting one of the world’s most important marine environments. That will include the establishment of a Mauritius marine protected area. The agreement also shuts down the possibility of the Indian ocean being used as a dangerous illegal migration route to the UK, with Mauritius taking responsible for any future arrivals. The long-term protection of the base on Diego Garcia has been the shared UK and US priority throughout. This agreement secures its future. We look forward to engaging with the incoming US Administration. I congratulate both President Trump and Dr Ramgoolam on their recent election victories in the US and Mauritius respectively, and we look forward to working with their Governments on this matter. The agreement is in all sides’ shared interests, and in our national security interest.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Chagos Islands · Hansard source

  More

  I completely reject those comments. Given that the previous Government spent over two years engaging in multiple rounds of negotiations in preparing the basis on which we got a deal done, the idea that we rushed into something is simply not true. It was not done in a rush. We are getting the job done, and keeping our national security and our interests secure.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source

  More

  I thank the shadow Foreign Secretary for her warm support for the Bill. I very much appreciate her agreement with the proposals in the clause. She asked what we can do to lean in and support the work at the CPA and, I assume, in the Commonwealth more generally. In fact, I have already been to an event hosted by Mr Speaker that encouraged Members to be heavily involved in the CPA, the Inter-Parliamentary Union and a number of other inter-parliamentary bodies. From my experience in this place, I know that they are incredibly important organisations that do brilliant work, and we as a Government certainly support Members of both Houses and, indeed, of the devolved Administrations taking part fully in that work. One of the first CPA conferences that I took part in was in the Senedd—the Welsh Parliament—in my constituency, which brought together representatives from not only across these islands, but across Europe and the Mediterranean. That was one of my first such experiences, and it took place in a devolved legislature in the UK. This is really important work, and I know just how important all the legislatures across the Commonwealth are. Representatives of the provinces in Canada, the states in Australia and elsewhere often take part in these bodies, so the Government are fully supportive of this. As for our wider support to the Commonwealth, as one of the largest funders to the secretariat and its programmes—I think the figure is £13 million—we continue to support the organisation and its aims overall. The shadow Foreign Secretary referenced the important work on governance, rights and other matters. Fundamentally, that comes back to the Commonwealth charter, which we are all signed up to. It is an important reference point for us to return to when we engage in some of the more challenging issues. Of course, we welcome the new secretary-general of the Commonwealth to her place and look forward to working with her. I thank the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for Esher and Walton, for her support and for emphasising the important role that the CPA, and the Commonwealth as a whole, play in supporting good governance and strong democracies and societies across the world. Question put and agreed to. Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 2 The International Committee of the Red Cross Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source

  More

  I thank the shadow Foreign Secretary and the Liberal Democrat spokesperson for their support for the clause and the important protections it provides for the ICRC. I agree with their comments about the important work that the ICRC does. The Government are absolutely committed to supporting its work. It is indispensable in many of the harrowing situations we are engaged in. The shadow Foreign Secretary and I have engaged with the ICRC on a number of occasions and seen its work at first hand. The shadow Foreign Secretary is right about the importance of continuing to support the ICRC’s work financially. I will not go into details of individual settlements in this debate for obvious reasons, but I am very happy to ask my right hon. Friend the Minister for Development to write to her to set out the details of our financial relationship with the ICRC going forward. It is an important organisation to support, because we all care about humanitarianism and treating prisoners of war, hostages and others properly. It does important, unique work that has been established for a very long time in relation to the Geneva conventions. The shadow Foreign Secretary rightly raised the issue of balance between good governance and not allowing wrongdoing in the humanitarian sector to remain covered up. That is exactly why we have struck a balance in the Bill between necessary confidentiality for the ICRC, and that not applying to those criminal proceedings. Obviously, we would continue to work with the ICRC, as we would with any other international humanitarian organisation, to ensure that it upholds the highest standards of internal governance and procedures. We are very supportive of whistleblowing and other schemes that allow those who suspect any wrongdoing, whether in these organisations or any other, to raise a concern and have it dealt with appropriately, not only concerning our own relations with that organisation, but also within the international system as a whole. I thought it might be worth briefly setting out why it is important that we get these confidentiality provisions right because, to date, the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office has been successful in applying to UK courts for public interest immunity—for example, to prevent disclosure of ICRC communications or to consider ICRC evidence in closed material procedures. However, the reality, and the right hon. Member for Witham understand this, is that those decisions are at the discretion of the court in each individual case and so cannot fully address the ICRC’s concerns. The release of material into closed material procedures still breaches the ICRC’s standard working methods of confidentiality, so even though we would expect confidentiality in those proceedings, that is not guaranteed. That is why it is important to put this important provision on the statute book and to give the ICRC and the CPA that assurance. The Bill and, indeed, its predecessors have been developed in close co-operation with the ICRC and the CPA, so it very much reflects their needs and, crucially, the need for them to continue to work with us in the most productive and outcome-based way. The Bill and clause therefore strike the right balance between the confidentiality they need to work with us, but without a blanket exemption that allows anything to go because, clearly, when it comes to criminal or other matters, those need to be dealt with in the appropriate way.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source

  More

  There were some references made to the ICRC in the previous debate, and we are now discussing that important part of the legislation. As the shadow Foreign Secretary pointed out, the International Committee of the Red Cross is an essential partner for achieving the UK’s global humanitarian objectives, and it plays a unique and important role, particularly in conflicts in some of the most harrowing circumstances. I, too, have engaged in work with the agency on many occasions in my career, both in this place and in the humanitarian sector prior to that. The ICRC has unique legitimacy to engage all parties to conflicts. It has unparalleled access to vulnerable groups in conflict situations, and it is frequently the only international agency operating at scale in many conflicts. It is therefore critical to enable it to operate in the UK, in accordance with its unique international mandate, which means maintaining its strict adherence to the principles of neutrality, impartiality, independence, and, importantly for the provisions in the Bill, its working method of confidentiality. The clause confers on the ICRC the legal capacities of a body corporate.. Key capacities relevant to the operation of an international organisation in the UK are to conclude contracts, to acquire and dispose of property, and to institute and be party to legal proceedings. The clause also enables the provision of specific privileges and immunities in respect to the ICRC, which will need to be determined on the basis of the functional need of the organisation and will be specified through arrangements to be agreed on after the passage of the Bill.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source

  More

  We now come to some of the more technical aspects of the legislation, which I hope will not detain us too long. It is reassuring to hear a number of Members talking about their connections to the CPA and the Red Cross movement. That is fantastic, and we have a wealth of expertise, particularly from the development and humanitarian sectors, in this new Parliament, which will be to the benefit of debates on many matters. It is a long-standing practice that privileges and immunities are conferred by Order in Council. Clause 4 provides that any Order in Council made under clauses 1 and 2 is subject to the draft affirmative parliamentary procedure, as I set out on Second Reading in October. For the benefit of new Members in particular, statutory instruments that are subject to the draft affirmative procedure require the approval of both Houses of Parliament before they may have effect. The clause also provides further detail as to the scope and extent of the delegated legislation-making power under clauses 1 and 2. In particular, an Order in Council may make different provision for different cases and persons and may contain consequential, supplementary, incidental, transitional or saving provisions. In addition, the clause provides the enabling power for two important aspects that are fundamental to the operation and management of privileges and immunities in respect of an international organisation. First, the Order in Council may specify circumstances where privileges or immunities do not apply, whether because of an exception to those privileges or immunities or because they have been waived by the organisation. Secondly, the Order in Council may specify that fiscal reliefs and exemptions are subject to arrangements or conditions imposed by the Secretary of State or the commissioners of His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. That will facilitate the application to the organisations of existing administrative schemes and processes in respect of international organisations that are administered by, among others, the FCDO and HMRC. Clause 5 explains that the term “the ICRC” means the International Committee of the Red Cross, as given under clause 2(1)(a). It also ensures that the definition of “statutory provision” allows for the treatment of the CPA and the ICRC as international organisations to be applied in regard to all relevant legislation, primary and secondary, including devolved legislation in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, whenever made. That is important because the Bill gives both the CPA and the ICRC treatment comparable to an international organisation, and therefore the organisations need to be recognised in the same way across all relevant legislation. Furthermore, that definition of statutory provision applies to the ICRC confidentiality provision in clause 2. It provides for protected ICRC information to be exempt from any disclosure requirement imposed by a statutory provision.

• 13 Nov 2024 · Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source

  More

  On a point of order, Mr Vickers. I want to reiterate my thanks to the Bill team, the officials of my Department and all Members who have taken part today, and to the CPA and the ICRC for their work. I have many experiences of working with both organisations. I am glad we have been able to proceed in swift time. I hope that the Bill can now proceed, with your agreement, Mr Vickers, to its next stage. Bill, as amended, to be reported .

• 13 Nov 2024 · Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source

  More

  It is a pleasure to serve under your chairpersonship, Mr Vickers. I welcome Members to the Committee and thank the Bill team and the Clerks for their work in preparing for these sittings. This Parliament is still relatively new, and I am sure that Members who have not been in one of these Committees before will find it as delightful as I did, when I first came to this place, to go line by line through Bills. This Bill is a slightly unusual example because it enjoys wide support across the House and has been debated a number of times in different forms. At the outset, I thank the shadow Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for Witham, and welcome her to her new role. She and I have sparred and have also worked together on many occasions. It is a genuine pleasure to have her here, and I thank her for the Opposition’s support for the Bill. I think we can get through this relatively quickly. This is an important Bill for the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and the International Committee of the Red Cross, and for their standing in this country. I hope that we can get through the technical scrutiny and put this on the statute book as soon as possible. Of course, we are coming off the back of a very successful Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting attended by the Prime Minister, Foreign Secretary, Lord Collins and others, alongside Ministers and leaders from across the Commonwealth, so it is right that we debate this Bill today. I welcome our guest, Mr Twigg—a former Member of this House—to the Gallery, and thank him for all his work with the CPA over many years. Many of us have benefited from associating with and engaging with CPA delegations on important work. I attended a useful conference in Ghana a couple of years ago with parliamentarians from across Africa. I cannot tell the Committee how important it was for me to be able to engage with colleagues on a wide range of issues, including women’s rights, security, healthcare and climate change. The inter-parliamentary and inter-Commonwealth understanding brought by the CPA is crucial to all our work in this place and to the work of the Government. The United Kingdom greatly values its long-standing programme partnership with the CPA and appreciates the important work that it is doing to strengthen inclusive and accountable democracy across the Commonwealth. Treatment as an international organisation will allow the CPA to continue to operate fully across the Commonwealth and international fora, and allow the organisation to participate fully in areas where it is currently restricted, including signing up to international statements and communiqués.