Sadik Al-Hassan MP: speeches

Speeches

• 9 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Third sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Software systems I have worked with already have the facility to differentiate by product, including for razor blades and alcohol products. That already exists across retail and in a variety of retail premises.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q You have listed a couple of bits, but do you think there are any further measures that would help to limit the appeal of vapes to children and young people? Matthew Shanks: I think the appearance and location of vape shops are important, so there could be better regulation around that. We have talked already about sponsorship bans. We have talked about raising the age of sale for vapes. I think vape packages should have the same kind of warnings that cigarette packages have on them. I really think so, because at the moment, they do not—and why would they not, if it is a cessation? “You are going to stop that, but you could still get this, so actually, we want to stop that.” Ultimately, that is what we should be aiming for. I think the young people parenting support provisions are engaged in that, because as I have said, parents see this as a way of enticing children back into school or helping them or taking away an argument. You have to appreciate that I am not criticising parents, because they have a tricky job to get them back in. They see this as something safe and think they are caring for their child, so if we make it clear that actually it is not, that will be really important. I have talked about vape detectors being useful in schools, but would it not be good if actually these things were banned? Then they could not be there. From that point of view, I think it is important.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q From my point of view, if I had one shop, I would have a larger burden with an individual licence. If I had 1,000 shops, I would have the same burden. That does not seem to balance on the proportionality of it. Do you think the best way forward is to have one licence for large groups and one licence for small shops? Inga Becker-Hansen: Again, I cannot give a conclusive answer at this point, but if you have different shops under one retailer that have different licensing schemes, it devalues customer confidence in the products they are selling across the country, if that makes sense.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q The only thing I would say to that is I can go into a small Tesco and it sells different things from the other small Tescos. Inga Becker-Hansen: Precisely. But then it should be up to the business or the retailer to decide that strategy for themselves rather than it being implemented.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q Do you believe the measures in the Bill to prevent vapes appealing to children are likely to work? Alison Challenger : The short answer is yes, I think they do. The need not to have children exposed to the marketing of vapes is very important. At the moment we see that children are exposed to that marketing and are encouraged to get access to vapes, so it is important that this is brought into the Bill. I think what is currently in the Bill will help us to address that significantly. David Fothergill: I concur. From a local authority point of view, we have argued long and hard about vapes and have spoken with your colleagues in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs about disposable vapes, which we have been very concerned about; so it is great to see this legislation moving forward.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q I can understand how it would increase complexity for a large retail organisation, but I cannot understand how it will individually affect the confidence of an individual consumer who goes into that shop. Inga Becker-Hansen: Okay.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q We have spoken a bit about the gradual change and about that preventing uptake, but how does the gradual change in the age of sale affect the impact on tobacco and vaping behaviour, compared with increasing the age of sale in one go? That is based on comments we have heard about the difficulty in asking people’s ages at 34 or 35—I think most people have no problem knowing I am old enough for most things nowadays. Professor Linda Bauld: That is an interesting question. My colleagues at UCL did a study that looked at what happened when they raised the age of sale from 16 to 18. I have to be honest with you: at the time, the tobacco control research community would not have pointed to that as the most ambitious measure that you could do; we did not think that changing the age by just two years would make an impact. But, from the data, it actually created 1.3 million more people who could not be sold cigarettes. We also know that, at the same time, due to the action on illicit tobacco, which is really important, the amount of illicit tobacco consumed fell by about 25%. So it is about those two things in partnership: tackling illicit, which of course is really important, and changing the age of sale. The promise of the smoke-free generation is more ambitious, however. Rather than just raising the age of sale by a few years, we are gradually changing it over time. That protects future generations, because we do not have the big jump to being suddenly ineligible to be sold cigarettes. To go back to the evidence in the annexe to the legislation, which shows the modelling done by my colleagues for the Department of Health and Social Care, it looks pretty robust. I think that this will have a big impact over time. I hope that is helpful.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q I thought you said that there are no licensed products on the market? Dr Laura Squire: There are not, which is why that is the way we would prefer to do it. Again, if we licensed these consumer products as a medicine, there are very strict requirements on labelling and on what needs to be given to the patient to explain what the product is and its risks. That is not there with these consumer cigarettes. It is going to get stricter under the new rules, but my preference would be that we give people more information.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q We talked a little bit about the new licensing scheme’s impact on retailers, and you have talked about a level playing field. You say that large companies should have one licence across multiple branches. How does that balance the risk that these measures will disproportionately impact small and independent retailers, which will have to apply for a licence for every individual premises? Inga Becker-Hansen: It is a bit difficult for me to give you specific details, but in initial response my thinking would be that it would be a discussion between retailers and their primary authority and how that is handled, bearing in mind smaller retailers versus larger retailers. I am happy to follow up in writing and give evidence that way, but I cannot give specific details currently.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q Thank you, Chair. In a couple of your answers it seemed that you were almost putting the point that maybe a vape should be a medicinal product. Is that the view of the MHRA? Dr Laura Squire: I do not have a view on whether a vape should be a medicinal product. I have a view on the role of the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency in regulating products that are not medical products, which is a little confusing at the moment. As I said, when something is a medical product, as with any medicine, you would not take it if you were not ill, because the benefits are not outweighed by the risks. That is really my point. I am pleased to see the strengthening in this area. There are conversations that are still to happen, as the consultation goes through and we understand exactly what the new registration scheme will involve, as to the best people to do this, to give the right message out to the public.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q From what I remember, vapes really started in the UK around 2010. Do you think that the Bill is sufficiently future-proof for the next evolution of nicotine or oral tobacco products? Whatever is coming next, do you think the Bill has enough to protect us from it? Professor Sanjay Agrawal: I have not yet had the chance to say this, but first, I think the Bill is really well balanced. It is bold and world leading; all nicotine products and non-nicotine containing vapes are part of it. The people who put this together should be congratulated, but we also have to be aware that industry never sleeps. It will try to adapt to regulation and legislation, and we need to be wary of that and make sure that we use the powers in the Bill in the future, depending on how industry responds. For example, with disposable vapes, which are due to be banned later this year, I am sure that there will be a lot of companies right now changing their products to make them look as though they are not disposable vapes when, to all intents and purposes, they are. There will be lots of adaptation by industry that we must be wary about. The Bill provides those future powers for us to adapt to industry.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q When we give a new medicine to somebody, we give them advice and explain what it is and what it is safe to do with it. When people get vapes, do they get the right level of information and advice about what that product actually is and about the risks? Dr Laura Squire: They would do if it was a licensed product.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q We have touched on local variations. How do you think local variations should take into account the small variations in health inequalities that exist in different areas? You gave an example of a shop being the only shop in a village, but if that village was also an area of high deprivation, how should that affect the outcome? David Fothergill: That is where local knowledge comes in. Taking that shop in the village, we would not say that it should not sell tobacco, but we would say that it should not be selling tobacco during these periods—for example, 8.30 am to 9.30 am, or 3.30 pm to 4.30 pm. Knowing the local communities and being able to put in local restrictions would help us to really have an impact. Clearly, in urban areas it would be very different. When the Minister asked questions about England, Wales and Northern Ireland, I should have said that what we would really like to see—it is in the Scottish legislation—is verification, where people are required to verify their age. Challenge 25 seems to work really well with alcohol, and we would like to see that brought in. We understand that that is in the Scottish legislation, and we would like to see it brought in in England as well.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q Thinking specifically about vapes, do you feel that this Bill goes far enough in providing tougher regulations and more resources for enforcement, while balancing the burden on businesses that probably have not had this level of regulation? Lord Michael Bichard: We think it does. You have to look at the package, because you do not just have age regulation or display and promotion regulation; you also have the proposal for licensing—which, by the way, we do not see trading standards being equipped to do; that is a local authority business and, as a former local authority man, I would have to say “with the resources”, because there is always a danger that you give local authorities more power but you do not give them the money. You have regulation, you have licensing and you have registration of products. If you put all that together, I think it is quite a powerful package, but it does need to be backed up with the resources, because it is delivering it that really matters. We are all used to legislation that sounds great and never gets delivered. Wendy Martin: I agree; we think the balance is there, hopefully with good communication to businesses. Again, in a similar way, this is not going to be entirely new territory—certainly for those businesses that are already involved in the sale of alcohol and tobacco in particular—in understanding where to go for support and the kind of controls that are in place. Certainly, if the changes are made to the product registration scheme, which should then make it more effective for businesses to be able to check that a product they are stocking is legal and compliant—if the package is right, as Michael said—it should not be too complex for businesses to comply with it.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Second sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q Would you like to explain how it would affect the confidence of the individual going into that shop? Inga Becker-Hansen: If you have certain branches of a certain brand selling alcohol in one shop, and then in another shop, they are selling alcohol and vapes, when you are going to purchase your product, you will think, “Okay, I will just pop to the shop”, but they may not have exactly what you need. But if you see it as a national product per se for the brand, then you have confidence in going into the retailer.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q Do you think the introduction of a generational ban on smoking could cause an increase in the use of other nicotine products, such as vapes or smoke-free tobacco? Hazel Cheeseman: The purpose of the legislation is to reduce smoking. The Department’s projections in the impact assessment clearly show that, even on conservative estimates, it will achieve that goal over time. So the question then is, does that lead to displacement into other products? Given that the legislation is comprehensive in relation to tobacco products, it is to be hoped that it will not lead to displacement into other kinds of tobacco products, but it might lead to some displacement into other nicotine products. As the chief medical officer said in the previous session, it is unlikely that nobody will take up smoking in the affected age group. Some people will; some of the 15-year-olds who will be affected by this legislation have already tried smoking. So we need there to be a legal nicotine product that those people will be able to use, with the restrictions that are coming into place in relation to vaping and other nicotine products in this legislation. One would not expect the overall consumption of nicotine to be greater than it otherwise would be, if that makes sense, but there may be some displacement into other nicotine products as we transition away from smoked tobacco and from tobacco being used widely in that group. Sheila Duffy: Dual use is a real concern in Scotland. Nearly 43% of people are dual-using cigarettes and e-cigarettes. The international longitudinal cohort evidence clearly shows a higher risk of progression to using combustible tobacco for young people that start vaping. I think this legislation has the real potential to move us away from that. Suzanne Cass: We also have to remember that the killer in the room is tobacco. The generational ban is the most crucial part of this legislation that we need to push forward. Therefore, we need to keep our eye on the ball when we are looking at the health impact, and the potential public health impact, of this Bill, and to make sure that we focus on driving down that tobacco use. Naomi Thompson: Just to reiterate what Suzanne has said, tobacco is the issue. The impact of tobacco was repeated multiple times in the previous session. If young people start, they continue, and they find it very difficult to stop. Therefore, if we can sort that, it is a great first step. There may be a small move towards other nicotine products, but we can work on that. Tobacco is the one that kills.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q Is there any research into passive vaping risks to bystanders, who do not have a choice if someone is vaping next to them? Sarah Sleet: As I said earlier, the research evidence around vaping harms is currently very poor. There has not been enough. It takes a long time to build up evidence of things that are generally very progressive rather than having an immediate impact, so we will have to wait. We need to put that in place, and we are going to have to wait to get that evidence back. We have had anecdotal reports from our beneficiaries and those who contact the organisation about places—particularly in closed spaces, but sometimes outside—where there is a concentration of vaping. It is that classic thing where you go through a door and suddenly everybody around you is vaping immediately outside it. We get reports that that exacerbates people’s asthma and sometimes their COPD, but they are anecdotal. We really need the evidence base to support what is happening. Dr Ian Walker: The only thing that I would add specifically from a cancer perspective is that although there is very little long-term evidence, because the products have not been around long enough and the cumulative effects have not been seen yet, what we do know, based on the current evidence, is that vapes are far less harmful than cigarettes. You heard the advice earlier that if you smoke it is better to vape or take other nicotine products, but if you do not smoke you should not vape, because we do not know yet what the long-term effects will be. In particular, we are very light on evidence on what the impact of vaping will be on bystanders.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q Thank you for the evidence submissions so far. In your opinion, will the Bill’s restriction of flavours for vaping products prevent the appeal to children and ex-smokers, if they can no longer access such products? Sir Francis Atherton: The issue of flavours and colours speaks to the issue of marketing towards children that we have been speaking about so far. I have no reason to believe that taking away colours and flavours that are appealing to children would remove vaping as a stop smoking tool. It remains an important tool in the box that we have to have alongside nicotine replacement therapy and alongside education, and it will remain an important tool to stop people smoking. The prime aim here, of course, is to stop the marketing towards children. If you think back to when tobacco was advertised in shops, we saw big gantries in shops, and what we have seen in recent years is that we now have vape gantries in almost all our shops. Taking away that marketing opportunity towards children—the colourful and flavoursome displays—can only be of benefit to reducing childhood vaping and the nicotine dependency that comes as a consequence of that. Professor Sir Chris Whitty: Let us be really clear about this: the vaping industry will claim it is not marketing to children while putting in flavours, colours, cartoons and placements that are clearly aimed at children. You just look at them—you do not need anything else—and you see the rates going up in children. It is very clear that the industry is doing that, and it needs to be tackled. Professor Sir Michael McBride: If you look at products with names “gummy bear” and “rainbow surprise”, who are they actually aiming those products at? Our Public Health Agency did research with more than 7,500 children and young people in Northern Ireland, using focus groups and online surveys. Some 77% of them told us that what appealed to them about vapes was the colours and flavourings. The public consultation had the strongest and highest support for banning flavours and colourings. More than 75% of the population in Northern Ireland supported that ban. We should not delude ourselves about the exploitative marketing of those products. In terms of next steps, it is really important that those who want to use vapes to quit smoking, as Sir Frank has said, can continue to access them. The Government undoubtedly will consult carefully on those measures to ensure that we do not—as the question is rightly exploring—restrict access or discourage individuals from using vapes to quit smoking.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I declare an interest as a practising pharmacist. [Interruption.]

• 7 Jan 2025 · Tobacco and Vapes Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Q Comparatively, how addictive is nicotine in tobacco and vapes compared with other products? I seem to remember that it is harder to get off nicotine than methadone. Is that true? Professor Sir Gregor Ian Smith: I am not sure we have the data or the evidence to back that up, but I have certainly heard people claim that in the past about the addictive nature of nicotine. One of the important aspects of this issue is the very rapid re-emergence of that addiction by small exposures after people have managed to quit. Certainly we should be in no doubt about the addictive nature of nicotine and the risks—going back to the harmful effects of passive smoking or being in the company of people who smoke—associated with the re-emergence of that addiction and of people’s tobacco smoking habits. That is something very real. Therefore, the best protection is never to start in the first place. If we can prevent people from taking those first nicotine products and prevent the addiction from forming in the first place, there is obviously a much greater chance that they are not going to suffer the health consequences.

• 6 Jan 2025 · Housing: Military Personnel and Families · Hansard source

  More

  7. What steps he is taking to improve housing for military personnel and their families.

• 6 Jan 2025 · Housing: Military Personnel and Families · Hansard source

  More

  May I wish a happy new year to you, Mr Speaker, to Members and to constituents in North Somerset? Morale in our military hit record lows under the last Government, and I am proud that this Government have already delivered the largest pay rise for the forces in more than 20 years. Does the Minister agree that this housing deal is the next practical step in the action that this Government are delivering to improve service lives for dedicated personnel?

• 17 Dec 2024 · Community Pharmacies: Devon and the South-west · Hansard source

  More

  It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Betts. Over the past two decades I have had the privilege of working in a range of community pharmacies across the south-west and elsewhere. I thank the hon. Member for Tiverton and Minehead (Rachel Gilmour) for the best birthday present I could ask for: an opportunity to talk about a passion that has defined my life and that I am still proud to practice today. I started my journey in community pharmacy studying at that pearl of south-west education, the University of Bath, more birthdays ago than I care to admit. From there, I went on to work in community pharmacies across the region, from Bideford in north Devon to the heart of Bristol, and even in Clevedon—a town I am honoured to represent as its Member of Parliament. During my time working in village pharmacies, town pharmacies and even online pharmacies, I was witness to the irreplaceable value that pharmacies and their teams provide to some of the most vulnerable in our society. I am sad to say that I also experienced many of the challenges that the sector now faces. Indeed, it was living with those challenges and seeing the unnecessary suffering caused by the decline of community pharmacies that prompted me to run for Parliament earlier this year. Over the past two decades working in community pharmacies across the south-west, I have seen at first hand the consequences of 14 years of pharmacy neglect by the previous Government, not least through their bad Brexit deal. By weakening our co-operation with our nearest neighbours, we have cut off the supply of pharmacists coming from Europe, we have greatly exacerbated our supply chain issues, resulting in medicine shortages, and we have contorted the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency into a role it was never designed for and has since failed to live up to. Undoubtedly the worst thing the previous Government did for our industry was freeze the funding settlement for 10 years, resulting in a 40% reduction in real terms. With ever-growing demands on prescribing and the introduction of the new role for pharmacists with Pharmacy First, the Conservatives prescribed pharmacy a tough pill to swallow and it will take years to undo the side effects. That is why we must not waste any more time. We must stabilise the sector today with a fair funding settlement while we begin the arduous task of reforming the role of pharmacy and the role it plays in our healthcare system. Pharmacy First was a good step but, with only seven conditions eligible for treatment, it falls far short of Wales’s 27 and Scotland’s 30, with the scheme in England fraught with issues, not least in payment. Although the obvious priority is to expand Pharmacy First and relieve pressure on GPs, we must first expand pharmacies’ capacity, which can be done only by finally implementing the hub-and-spoke legislation that was inexplicably shelved in September without warning or explanation. Hub-and-spoke model 1 would allow smaller independent community pharmacies finally to take advantage of the technologies that larger chains have been using for decades, thereby greatly increasing their efficiency and freeing up time previously spent on dispensing to be used for the delivery of clinical services to patients under an expanded Pharmacy First scheme. I am eager to see this Government avoid the mistakes made during the past 14 years that have brought the sector to crisis point. I thank the hon. Member for Tiverton and Minehead for securing the debate, and the Minister for listening to our concerns. We have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to rewrite the story of pharmacy, which has a long and rich history of healthcare provision in this country but now faces an uncertain future, with some in the sector concerned that we might not survive past 2039. The prescription for pharmacy is an immediate funding settlement for this year to stabilise the sector with a sticking plaster while we look at the longer-term changes the industry needs. Having been on the ground for the past 20 years, I am here to say that pharmacy has cut every ounce of fat that can be cut, and all that is left is bone. Without advancing the modernisation agenda, the sector has no more efficiencies to make. For that to happen, we need the Government to commit to implementing the hub-and-spoke model to increase capacity, and to expanding Pharmacy First to use that capacity. Pharmacy has an important future role to play in relieving pressure on other parts of our healthcare system, but it can play that role only if we proactively engage with the sector, rather than leave it out in the cold for another 14 years.

• 17 Dec 2024 · Community Pharmacies: Devon and the South-west · Hansard source

  More

  I congratulate the hon. Member on having the best birthday.

• 12 Nov 2024 · Warm Homes Plan · Hansard source

  More

  I thank the Minister for her commitment to the warm homes plan. Many of my constituents in North Somerset have written to me in recent weeks, detailing their concerns that the scheme does not take sufficient account of higher energy usage due to long-term illnesses. Will the Minister share whether the Department has any plans to look into uplifting the warm home discount for participants with relevant long-term illnesses?