Neil Hudson MP: speeches 2025

Speeches

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  I am not reassured by those comments. The Minister says that the water restoration fund does not need new legislation, but we are concerned that the fact that the fund is not in the Bill shows that the Government are not doing anything with it. They are completely silent about it. I fear that they are going to drop the baton they are being handed and let it pass away. The fund needs to be in the Bill. I am not reassured by the Minister, so we will press a vote on the establishment of a water restoration fund in the Bill. Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. New clause 3, which His Majesty’s Opposition will again push to a vote, has at its heart the people we want to protect—the very individuals who this Committee has acknowledged are most affected: the consumers and bill payers. They are the pivotal reason why we have tabled the clause. The clause would require the Secretary of State to make provision so that where a water company has faced financial penalties for failure to comply with the law, a financial amount equal to those penalties must be removed from the bills of that water company’s consumers. Of course, one might suppose that it is difficult to make an equivalence between the amount of a financial penalty and the amount to be reduced on the bills, but subsection (2) sets out that it must be calculated by dividing the total financial penalty by the water company’s number of customers. We have laid out a formula that the Secretary of State could follow in fulfilling the duties under the clause. The Government might object that the clause would create additional duties for the Secretary of State on top of their existing ones, but the Opposition believe that the measure is relatively simple, can be calculated and is worth adopting for the very principle of accountability for which all of us across this House are striving. I have already mentioned that, when the Conservatives were in government, we took action to set out that water bosses would be banned from receiving bonuses if a company had committed serious criminal breaches. The Bill copies that and takes it forwards, but the new clause takes the principle of accountability, which has been raised in the Committee’s last couple of sittings, even further.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  On clauses 12 and 13, the Opposition tabled amendments 7 and 8 to remove them. They provide the Government with the power to issue special administration orders to water companies that face financial difficulties. I put on record my thanks to my Conservative colleagues in the other place for sounding the alarm on this issue when the Bill came forward. They made the case that the measures in clauses 12 and 13 could put the very people we want to protect in such legislation, namely the consumers, at risk. The moral hazard has been explicitly set out by my colleagues in the other place, but I will attempt to summarise it so that we are clear what the problem is. As it stands, the clauses will give the Government the power to recover any losses they make through placing a company in special administration by raising consumer bills. The problem seems self-evident. If water companies, through their own failure, require the Government to place them under special administration, why should consumers be expected to foot the bill for those failures when they had no particular responsibility for them? It runs contrary to the nature of all the action that has been taken in recent years to try to improve our water quality, and companies that have failed to get their affairs in order must take responsibility. I was on the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee in the last Parliament, and we spent a lot of time looking at the financial resilience and behaviour of the water sector in close detail. I know that the current iteration is continuing that work. It was concerning to hear about the financial resilience of the sector at first hand in our hearings and meetings. As I said in a sitting of this Committee last week, the financial resilience of the water industry is not a hypothetical issue, but one of paramount concern right now. We are all starkly aware of concerns surrounding the financial resilience of companies such as Thames Water. We heard about that in detail on the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee in the last Parliament. In November, Ofwat’s “Monitoring Financial Resilience” report identified 10 companies that needed an increased level of monitoring and/or engagement concerning financial resilience. Three were placed in the highest category of “action required”, which means that action must be taken or is being taken to strengthen a company’s financial resilience challenges and that there is a requirement to publish additional information and reporting on improvements at a more senior level with Ofwat. As well as sending out the opposite message to the companies that Ofwat is working so hard to scrutinise and regulate to protect consumers, clauses 12 and 13 send out the wrong message to consumers themselves. Consumers were recently told that they can expect their average bills to rise by a minimum of about £86, at a time when no doubt some of them have concerns about how to afford their existing bills, along with wider cost concerns. I say gently to the Government that the recent Budget did not help the situation for people’s household budgets. How can it be fair that as a result of these clauses the Government may lead consumers to pay more at a time when many are finding it difficult to pay their bills and do not feel that they are getting the clean water that they deserve? It will potentially add insult to injury when many people are all too aware that they could face higher prices on their water bills because of the Government’s moves. Shareholders and water company bosses used to be able to receive dividends and bonuses despite polluting our rivers and seas and failing to do the right thing to tackle it. Although reforms have been made to ensure that water company bosses who are not doing their duty with regard to our waterways are forbidden from claiming excessive bonuses, the sting will remain for many people when they keep in mind the prospect of paying higher bills to bail out companies for their poor financial performance. To water companies, these clauses will send out a signal that they do not have to worry about incurring the consequences of financial irresponsibility, as the Government will have a mechanism to bail them out and consumers may indirectly have to fork out the costs. Nobody is being required to take accountability or face the consequences of the decisions that have caused the failure, but those who have no responsibility or influence are being forced to pay an unfair price increase. Worse still, the clauses fail completely to specify how much they can require companies to raise from consumers or how much consumers could have to pay in increased costs as a result of the Government’s imposition of these conditions on water companies. That means that any announcements of price changes to water bills, such as those announced by Ofwat, could give no indication at all of how much consumers could end up paying on their water bills. To compound the higher prices even further, consumers may end up facing higher bills to solve special administration financial issues for companies by which they are not even served. Under clause 12, proposed new section 12J(4) of the Water Industry Act states that “relevant financial assistance” in subsection (3) can include “any other company which holds or held an appointment under this Chapter and whose area is or was wholly or mainly in England.” Companies that do the right thing could be forced to pay up, or make their consumers pay up, for the mistakes of those who have failed to do the right thing. As my noble Friend Lord Remnant put it: “It is the debt and equity investors” in a company that has failed to do the right thing “who should pay for these losses in the form of lower proceeds from any eventual sale. Why should a retired police officer in Yorkshire or a hard-working nurse in Cornwall lose out to a hedge fund owner in New York trying to make a quick return?” —[ Official Report, House of Lords, 20 November 2024; Vol. 841, c. 293.] Although in the other place the Government attempted to explain away concerns by suggesting that they do not think that they will have to use the power except as a last resort, and that the bar for special administration would be extremely high, the fact that on more than one occasion the Government could have accepted amendments to remove proposed new subsection (4) must mean that they expect that on at least some occasions they will require its use. The time taken to defend the measure and oppose reforms suggests that this is no mere formality in the wording of the Bill, but something that the Government may put in place. The Minister in the other place said that the Government would seek to exercise the power in proposed new subsection (4) only if Government bail-outs to water companies could not be financed for the duration for which a company is in special administration—that is, during the shortfall. If that is the condition the Government are setting for the measure—if we have to have the measure at all—could they not have set it out explicitly within the Bill? At the very least, that would have provided clarity about how far the power should be permitted to go. Clause 13 will provide the Welsh Government with the same powers as those in clause 12. Although the powers in clause 13 are independent of who occupies the offices of the Welsh Government, it should be noted that the Welsh Government who would currently be expected to exercise the powers do not have the most brilliant track record on the water industry, to say the least. Under the Welsh Labour Administration, the average number of spills from storm overflows in 2022 was two thirds higher than in England. That record suggests that the Government in Wales leave much to be desired when it comes to the competence of the water industry, and there is evidence for concern when it comes to exercising the clause’s powers. Regardless of the specifics of the subsections and of who holds the powers contained in clauses 12 and 13, they are, as they stand, completely against the principles of improving the water industry. I urge the Minister to consider those points and to remove the clauses. Accordingly, we will seek a vote to remove clauses 12 and 13 from the Bill.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. The proposed new clause would introduce a legal requirement that money collected from water companies from financial penalties imposed by the Bill are legally required to be used by the water restoration fund. As with much of the Bill, the Government intend to build on the work begun by the previous Conservative Government. The water restoration fund is one pillar of that record that the Government would do well to advance. I look forward to hearing from the Minister what they plan to do with that excellent fund, which needs to be reinstated and progressed. I have personally championed the water restoration fund, not only in my present role as shadow DEFRA Minister, but before that as a member of the Conservative Environment Network. I pay tribute to that body for its successful campaigning, which in led no small part to the previous Conservative Government introducing the excellent water restoration fund. In 2022, I was proud to sign the Conservative Environment Network’s “Changing course: a manifesto for our rivers, seas and waterways”. That was its first public declaration, setting out the ambition to introduce this policy recommendation. In addition to the Conservative Environment Network, I would like to namecheck and thank the good folk of Wildlife and Countryside Link for their support and campaigning for the fund and this proposed new clause. I also pay tribute to the Angling Trust for the discussion we had on this matter, and give a big shout-out to our former colleague Philip Dunne, who was respected across the House. The former MP for Ludlow and Chair of the Environmental Audit Committee made assiduous efforts to see this fund introduced, as well as wider measures to protect our precious waterways. As we have discussed with the Minister, there is considerable consensus on what we can do collectively and on a cross-party basis to protect and nurture our watercourses and waterways. I hope the Government will take forward and continue the water restoration fund because it is pivotal to what we are trying to do.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  I agree. Amendments are easy to table with a view to obstruction and making political points, and those were not affordable and would not have been deliverable in any realistic timescale. Governments have to make realistic, cost-effective decisions that honour the taxpayer, and they have to be clear with the public about how such measures will be implemented and paid for. If the Government do not support our amendment, I hope they will clarify what steps they are taking to protect customers from the knock-on impact of fines. Unfortunately, in many industries when costs are imposed, customers sometimes pay higher prices. With the new clause, we want to ensure that when we rightly impose financial penalties on water companies there are no unintended consequences for the consumers we aim to defend by imposing the financial penalties in the first place. With that in mind, and given the aim of accountability, we sincerely hope the Government will support the new clause. Ultimately, we aim to press it to a vote. Ordered, That the debate be now adjourned.— (Jeff Smith.)

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  It is a privilege to serve under your chairship today, Dr Huq. We have no formal objection to clause 7, which imposes a duty on environmental regulators to impose penalties for offences by water company that the clause specifies. Offences have of course increased, and water bosses have been banned from receiving bonuses if a company has committed serious criminal breaches. Regulators have more powers than they used to in being able to impose larger fines for polluters without needing to go to court. The clause focuses on exactly the same principle and we therefore have no formal objections. I raised in an earlier Bill Committee sitting—this is relevant here—that there has been an increase in the number of inspections that water companies can expect, from 4,000 a year by April this year to 10,000 a year by April of next year. In other words, what has been addressed in the past is not just regulation, but the whole pathway of the enforcement of regulations, so that regulations are not merely blunt instruments but active ones that water companies can expect to have to deal with if they do not act responsibly to their customers, the environment and the wider public. On that last point, will the Minister clarify and ensure that these offences are and will be enforced and commit to making further amendments to the law, not only regarding the offences themselves, but also on their enforcement, if the Government believe that things need to be tightened up moving forward? Aside from those clarifications, we have no formal objections to the clause.

• 14 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  Yes, I was aware of that. I am acutely aware of it now and congratulate my hon. Friend on securing it. It highlights the fact that there is a lot of agreement. I am sure that his debate will demonstrate cross-party consensus on the use of nature-based solutions. We debated flood mitigation in Committee last week, but the water restoration fund is pivotal to trying to improve the situation at the local level and at the local catchment level as well. Since being introduced by the previous Government, the water restoration fund has provided £11 million for communities to repair their local waterways and restore them to the quality that they should be at—the quality to which local communities should be entitled. At the heart of the proposal is simply this: those who are at fault for the damage done to our waterways must make restoration for it. Given the facts, I find it disappointing that, despite the cross-party efforts in the other place to enact such measures, they were not listened to by the Government. I hope that in a spirit of consensus the Government will look at that in this Session. The arguments made by the Government in the other place were not satisfactory. They objected to the principle of ringfencing the funding and to the need for the Treasury to have flexibility in how it spends the money, but in this specific case the argument does not quite stack up. Where money comes from taxation, ringfencing is not always the most reliable way to ensure the Treasury has the spending power it needs to deliver public spending, but we are talking about something completely different. Fines are much more uncertain and provide less guarantee regarding the amount of money that they will bring in. To rely on funds such as these for day-to-day broad Treasury spending simply does not make sense. Ringfencing penalties for the water restoration fund is a much more sensible measure that allows Governments to guarantee that they can meet a specific need. In other words, those who are at fault for harming the quality of our rivers, seas, coasts and lakes make restoration for the damage caused by their action—or inaction. Given all that we have outlined, there cannot be a more justified way of directly making restoration for damage to our previous water system than the mechanism laid out by the water restoration fund. Water companies pay the fines for the damage that they have done, and local communities that are affected are empowered to restore the precious waterways that they live near. A finer detail of the amendment that should not be ignored is the fact that we will improve chalk streams. It is unfortunately clear that, despite the Government’s pitch to the British public that they would do better than the previous Government in protecting our waterways, their actions on chalk streams do not bear that out. It was very disappointing that over the Christmas period it was revealed that plans from the Conservatives to recover our chalk streams have been laid to one side by the Government. Given that England is home to over 80% of the world’s chalk streams, the failure to act on this issue is neglect of a vital duty to protect a not only a key part of the UK’s environment, but a feature in the environment of the world. They are a precious resource that very few countries are lucky to have access to. Members across this House represent areas with chalk streams. It is a dereliction of duty to ignore that category in the UK environment. The plans that the previous Government proposed would have given chalk streams a new status of protection. Special consideration would have been given to watercourses in road guidance, and supporting the physical restoration of the streams as key pillars of our plan would have put chalk streams back on the road to the recovery that is needed. As the deviser of the plans has said publicly, although the Government may want to focus on chalk streams in national parks and landscapes, they risk ignoring chalk streams in most need of recovery across the country. Can the Minister explain why this vital plan of action, which was ready to go, has not been fulfilled? I hope that this decision was not based on politics. We need to look at this in terms of evidence and what is best for our environment.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  On that note, I will move on to amendment 9, which would make it a requirement for pollution incident reduction plans to include how an undertaker intends to reduce the occurrence of pollution incidents in national parks attributable to their water system. The Opposition tabled the amendment to strengthen the existing plans that the Government have put forward, so that no stone is left unturned in ensuring environmental protections from our water companies. The amendment ensures that water companies make it clear how they will work to reduce pollution incidents in national parks in a system that a water company operates in. National parks are an area that the previous Conservative Government took great efforts to protect in their legislative programme on protected landscapes. We worked to encourage water companies to invest in peat restoration, and allowed teams at national parks to bid for investment that improved their water environments. The history of recent work on national parks goes beyond just the most recent Government, with the Glover review being published in July 2019. In a response to that review, the Conservatives highlighted their commitment to national parks and water quality, such as through developing the natural capital and ecosystem assessment, which combined data science, citizen science and earth observation technology to inform water quality improvements as a priority target; and ensured that capital and natural capital reporting were embedded into the management plans of protected landscapes.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  I was referring to the hon. Gentleman’s colleague. It is therefore worrying that although the previous Administration went to great lengths to ensure that water companies were financially resilient, this Government are doing quite the opposite with Government amendment 1. That amendment, which will leave out lines 4 to 8 of clause 1, would amend the requirement for rules made by Ofwat under the clause to specifically include rules on financial reporting. That could not more clearly delineate the Conservative approach that the Labour party so derided—it promised the British people that it would do things differently—from the actual approach that Labour has taken in power. Government amendment 1 undermines not only the hard efforts of the previous Conservative Government in taking the issue seriously, but the efforts of the cross-party consensus that secured the commitment to having financial reporting rules made by Ofwat in the Bill. That cross-party coalition, which included my Conservative colleagues in the other place, forced the Government to ensure that the original commitment would be in place in the Bill. Labour voted against the commitment and is simply seeking to overturn a clear cross-party consensus for Ofwat to be given powers to set rules on financial reporting. Ensuring that Ofwat can view a water company’s financial structuring will help it to scrutinise and have an understanding of how the company is operating. It will also ensure that the consumers who have been let down by the water industry for far too long are protected. With close financial monitoring, water companies will face the necessary scrutiny to reduce the risk that ordinary consumers are left without a supplier. Financial mismanagement poses great risks, so every sinew must be strained to prevent it; financial reporting is key to ensuring that that takes place. The financial resilience of the water companies is not a hypothetical issue, but a paramount concern right now. As recently as November, Ofwat’s monitoring financial responsibility report identified 10 companies that needed an increased level of monitoring and/or engagement concerning financial resilience. Seven of those companies were placed in the elevated concern category, meaning that some concerns or potential concerns with their financial resilience have been identified. Three companies were placed in the highest category of action required, meaning that action must be taken or is being taken to strengthen the company’s challenges with financial resilience, and therefore they need to publish additional information and report on improvements at a more senior level with Ofwat.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  If the hon. Gentleman checks Hansard , he will see that in my speech on Second Reading and just now I said “storm overflows”. I gently remind the third-party spokesman that in the coalition Government the Liberal Democrats had a Water Minister who did absolutely nothing on this issue.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  The Minister says that she would like to do this properly. We all agree around this House on the scale of the problem, the public outrage at some of the things that have happened with water companies and the fact that we are trying to address and improve our water quality. I am therefore curious why both the Government and the third party are shying away from giving the Secretary of State and the Department the democratic powers and accountability to pass statutory instruments, which, as we all know, can be done very quickly. We have talked about dental analogies. I am an equine vet; I have rasped many teeth in my time. It would help ministerial oversight to see that the dental work is being done properly.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  I will make some progress, if I may.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  With the greatest respect, I sat on the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee in the previous Parliament, and we took evidence from the chief executive of Ofwat on some of the key measures that the Conservative Government brought forward. Our Government gave Ofwat teeth and powers, and we need to make sure it uses them. As detailed in the explanatory notes, Ofwat already has wide powers to set the conditions of water company appointments and licences. The Conservatives worked hard to strengthen its ability and power to do that since this issue came to the fore in order to drive the regulatory change that was vitally needed to tackle the scale of the crisis that came to light. I again remind Members on both sides of the House that when Labour left office in 2010, only 7% of storm overflows were monitored; when we Conservatives left office, 100% of outflows were monitored. We found the scale of the sewage problem and were the first party to start to address it. The Conservative Government’s Environment Act 2021 gave Ofwat the power to consider, when deliberating about dividends, the environmental performance of a company and its credit rating, whereby Ofwat could stop the paying of dividends if it felt that the firm faced financial risks as a result of its actions.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  I rise to speak about amendments 6 and 9, proposed by His Majesty’s Opposition. I hope that they are self-explanatory amendments that are quite simply about the core concept of accountability, which was at the heart of the previous Government’s mission to improve our water system. We must remember that at the heart of every failure that damages our waterways, it is the Great British public—those who rely on our waterways as consumers and as members of communities served by them—who are let down and denied the rights to pollution-free water systems to which they are entitled. Amendment 6, which would require water companies to publish their implementation reports accessibly online, gives the public a tangible and visible sign by which water companies can be held to account for the promises they make and the actions they say they will take. It is a vital step in trying to restore the trust that water companies may be seen to have lost in recent years with the public through their inadequate actions to deal with this issue, as people have seen and as hon. Members have articulated today on both sides of the House. It is very much about having not just words and promises but explicit standards to judge water companies by, and it would form a kind of contract between the companies and their consumers, who would then know what to expect from their individual company. His Majesty’s Opposition have no objections to the principle of clause 2 and its requirement that water companies publish an implementation report, nor in the specific details that companies would be expected to produce in proposed new section 205B of the Water Industry Act 1991. In fact, we welcome the Government’s willingness to listen to the concerns from Conservative peers, including Lord Roborough, and peers from other parties in the other place to strengthen clause 2, including the requirement for implementation reports to be drafted by water companies in the first place and ensuring that the requirements for pollution incident reduction plans also include water supply system-related incidents, not just sewage-related incidents. However, we believe that amendment 6 would go even further to strengthen that proposal and advance the accountability that we all want water companies to have. Requiring implementation reports to be published online in an accessible way sets out an explicit and clear definition to water companies of how they are expected to publish any such plans, as the clause requires, and demonstrates how water companies must comply with the law in unequivocal terms. In stressing accessibility, amendment 6 would end the ambiguity that can sometimes exist for the public, which means that it is often too easy for companies to hide away behind protocol and procedure. By making such information available to consumers, we would ensure that there could be no hiding in murky waters on this vital issue and the concrete commitments to improving our waterways. Water companies can also benefit from the chance to make reflections on their progress available in full sight of the public. In all walks of life, sometimes people’s efforts to make good on promises cannot come to full fruition for reasons beyond their control. If genuine reasons arise for not meeting targets, there can be full transparency for the public as to why, so they can understand more about the nature of the industry and the issues involved in protecting the quality of our water system. In other words, full transparency is in everyone’s interests. A 2023 review commissioned by Ofwat about the importance of open data was clear that open data provide great benefits in a range of areas when it comes to the water industry. In terms of the environment, it highlighted that open data from sewage overflow monitoring were beneficial to the creation of the predictive analytics tools used in Wessex Water’s intelligent sewers competition, which helped to identify sewage blockages much earlier than they otherwise would have been. That demonstrates an explicit link between the work of recent years to require data monitoring in the water industry, such as on storm overflows—I reiterate that 100% are monitored thanks to the work of the previous Conservative Government—and improvements in the water industry’s tackling of pollution. That is in addition to the improved accountability and the responsibility that data publication places on water companies to get the issue right. The report highlighted, however, that at the time there was a trend towards companies sharing data with their key partners, rather than making information completely and clearly available for unrestricted public access. The report therefore explicitly recommended that companies in the water sector should look at the data they had been sharing only with specific groups and partners, and take steps to make available those data where they can. Amendment 6 would solve the problem of information reports before it could even arise—upstream—by unequivocally stating that water companies must publish implementation reports on their websites that would be accessible to all members of the public, not just those with the time and influence to ask for such data. We talked about citizen science: this will give those data to the people to analyse and hold water companies to account. The Conservatives will therefore be pressing amendment 6 to a Division. I am conscious of time, Mr Vickers. Are you going to call stumps in about 20 seconds?

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  It is a great privilege to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Vickers. On behalf of His Majesty’s Opposition, I rise to challenge the Government on their plans in Government amendments 1 and 2. Before I go into the detail, I will make some general comments about the clause that are pertinent to the amendments. The Opposition worry that the Bill, rather than taking original and new measures to tackle these issues, is purely an attempt to copy and paste the work done by our previous Conservative Government. In fact, many of the measures have already been copied from previous measures that we introduced in government.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  I respectfully disagree with the hon. Member. We passed the Environment Act 2021, we gave Ofwat and the Environment Agency more teeth and, as I have said, we were the first party to start measuring and collecting the data that meant we could act on this issue. Moving forward, we are trying to ensure that Ofwat and the Environment Agency use the teeth given to them by the previous Conservative Government to make our waters better. To suggest with Government amendment 1 that Ofwat should not be concerned with financial resilience rules quite simply sends the wrong message to the public, so I urge the Government to reconsider. The Opposition will seek to push Government amendment 1 to a vote.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  His recollection is perhaps different from many people and the public at large regarding the Liberal Democrat record on water. His party seemed to jump on this bandwagon once the Conservatives were the party that actually started measuring the scale of the problem. Returning to amendment 21, the hon. Gentleman has the word “Democrat” in the name of his party. I do not know why they are so scared of having democratic and ministerial accountability by having a very simple clause in the Bill that would provide for a statutory instrument being laid so that the Secretary of State for DEFRA would have some accountability for that. I take on board the point about the first part of paragraph 5 in terms of the first six months of the Bill, but with the amendment would remove two thirds of that clause, which was put in with cross-party consensus in the other place. I am surprised that they are scared of democratic accountability.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  The Minister said that she worries that the amendment from Lord Cromwell would duplicate things. Actually, it is quite a simple amendment that achieved a lot of cross-party support in the other place. If it duplicates things, a bit of repetition is not a bad thing to ensure annual financial reporting by water companies. It would not create confusion: repeating this important matter on the face of the Bill would just create clarity, so we urge the Government to reconsider.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  I beg to move amendment 10, in clause 3, page 9, line 38, at end insert— “141H Restriction on the use of emergency overflows in areas used for aquatic sports (1) A sewerage undertaker must not permit a discharge from an emergency overflow in an area used for aquatic sports. (2) In this section, an ‘area used for aquatic sports’ is a section of any body of water connected to and within a one mile radius of— (a) the clubhouse of a rowing club affiliated with British Rowing, (b) a Royal Yacht association training centre or the clubhouse of an affiliate member, and (c) the properties or facilities used by any organisation that the Secretary of State deems to provides water-based sporting activities for the purpose of teaching, training or leisure. (3) If a relevant undertaker fails to comply with its duties under section (1)— (a) the undertaker commits an offence, and (b) the chief executive of the undertaker commits an offence, subject to subsection (5). (4) It is a defence for the chief executive to prove that they took all reasonable steps to avoid the failure. (5) A person who commits an offence under this section is liable, on summary conviction or conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or an unlimited fine, or both.” This amendment creates an offence for a sewerage undertaker to use an emergency overflow in an area used for aquatic sports. I will try not to mention teeth in this part of our proceedings, but I cannot promise. It is with great pleasure that I rise to speak in favour of amendment 10, on behalf of my hon. Friend the Member for Beaconsfield —this is sounding like “Groundhog Day”, isn’t it? The amendment has a simple principle: that waters used for aquatic sports should be subject to the same protections as those used for bathing. It establishes that there should be clear consequences for water companies and their chief executives when they fail to comply with a clear duty to protect the waters in which people practise aquatic sports. Aquatic sports are an important part of our sporting heritage in this country, but the impact of overflow discharges into our waterways and rivers is potentially creating an existential risk to some sports clubs up and down the country. We have heard reports of increased incidences of illness among participants as a direct and indirect consequence of exposure to pathogens and bacteria from sewage outflows in the waterways where they practise their water sports. That is a significant cause for concern for our rowing, sailing, canoeing and other aquatic sports clubs. Many clubs take their duty of care very seriously indeed. They are having to put in place their own monitoring systems to protect their participating members. Training sessions, competitions and regattas are all facing potential cancellation, and participation in those sports risks becoming less attractive and less available to people. We can all agree that actively participating in sport and physical exercise is so good for not only our physical health, but our mental health. Any deterrents discouraging people from being involved in some sports are deeply regrettable. The amendment is trying to put the safety of the waters used for aquatic sports on the same basis as those where people bathe. It is time for water companies to take responsibility for ensuring that those waters are safe to use. The amendment sets out a reasonable expectation that a water company must not discharge from an emergency overflow within a one-mile radius of an area used for aquatic sports. The definition of such an area is clearly outlined, and further discretion is provided for the Secretary of State to determine such areas where needed. The consequences for water companies and their chief executives for failure to comply with this duty are set out clearly and are consistent with amendment 4, also tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Beaconsfield.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  In the interests of promoting transparency and clarity, we would still like to press our amendment 6 to a vote. To bolster, support and protect the precious integrity of our national parks, we would like to do the same with amendment 9. Amendment proposed : 9, in clause 2, page 5, line 10, at end insert— “(2A) A pollution incident reduction plan must, in particular, state how the undertaker intends to reduce the occurrence of pollution incidents in national parks that are attributable to its system.”— (Dr Hudson.) Question put, That the amendment be made.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  I beg to move amendment 4, in clause 3, page 9, line 38, at end insert— “141H Failure to report discharge from emergency overflows (1) If a relevant undertaker fails to comply with its duties under section 141F— (a) the undertaker commits an offence, and (b) the chief executive of the undertaker commits an offence, subject to subsection (2). (2) It is a defence for the chief executive to prove that they took all reasonable steps to avoid the failure. (3) A person who commits an offence under this section is liable, on summary conviction or conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or an unlimited fine, or both.”. This amendment would make it an offence for an undertaker to fail to comply with its duty to report discharges from emergency overflows. In my remarks on amendment 3, I highlighted the fact that parity of attention between storm overflows and emergency flows is critical to action in regulating the water industry. With that point in mind, I move amendment 4, in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Beaconsfield, which would make it a criminal offence for water companies and their chief executives to fail to comply with their duty to report on discharges from emergency overflows. As I stated earlier, much was done to tackle the issue of storm overflows by the previous Conservative Government, including the passing of the Environment Act 2021, which we have spoken a lot about today. That introduced the statutory duty for water companies to publish storm overflow data in England every year and a storm overflow discharge reduction plan that created strict targets for sewage pollution and demanded water company investment in the necessary infrastructure to resolve issues. Amendment 4 would address the need to ensure that emergency overflows are subject to the strict enforcement that we have seen exercised towards storm overflows in recent years. We have seen that an emphasis on strict enforcement can work in getting the reform that we all want to see the industry practise, and indeed in improving water quality. I note and welcome the comments from the hon. Member for Witney who welcomed the progress that we have made in that area on monitoring and trying to address these issues. The Government have set out in the Bill plans to put in place a criminal offence for failing to co-operate with or obstructing regulatory investigations. The amendment seeks to address a gap in those plans in a key area of public concern—a duty to report discharges from emergency overflows. Despite significant steps, some water companies are not taking their responsibilities to protect our waterways seriously enough. This is a sector where the rewards for success have historically been high for shareholders and, as we have heard a lot about, for executives. It is time now for serious consequences for failure to protect our waterways and the public to sit alongside those rewards for success. The duty to report discharges from emergency overflows is basic, reasonable and vital to public transparency. I come back to our points about transparency. There can be no defence from any water company that it does not understand that duty or why that duty matters. Given the Bill already puts in place the principle of a criminal offence for failure to fulfil a reasonable duty and establishes a criminal offence for failure to co-operate or to obstruct a regulatory investigation, the amendment would strengthen the Bill’s intent that water companies’ conduct must be subject to criminal sanction and unlimited fines. Of course, at the same time, however, as human error and technical fault can plague many walks of life and water companies are no exception, there must be a fair and reasonable opportunity for water companies and chief executives accused of violating their duties to show that they have genuinely tried to comply with the duties of reporting emergency overflows. Therefore, subsection (2) of amendment 4 provides explicit criteria that failure to meet the duties of publication for storm overflows does not result in a criminal offence when the company has done all it reasonably could to prevent the incident from occurring.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  I note that clause 6 would grant the Secretary of State and Welsh Ministers the power to introduce secondary legislation concerning fixed and variable monetary penalties, as confirmed by the Regulatory Enforcement and Sanctions Act 2008. It would likewise change the condition of imposing these penalties from “beyond reasonable doubt” to “on the balance of probabilities”. Although His Majesty’s Opposition have no problems with the clause, we believe it would be beneficial for the Minister to make some clarifications to aid the reading of the clause in the future. First, how often does the Minister think that secondary legislation may be required for the fixed monetary penalties? During the last Government’s period in office, we knew that sometimes penalties needed to be adapted to get regulation of our water industries right. As I discussed in previous debates, the Conservative Government saw fit to amend the amount that water companies could be fined for violating the water quality rules. As was also mentioned earlier, Baroness Hayman in the other place highlighted the importance of flexibility in changing rules on the water industry. The Opposition agree that flexibility is important, but for there to be flexibility, there also needs to be consistency, and awareness and monitoring of the issue so that we know exactly what flexibility is needed. Could the Minister therefore comment, now or in due course, on whether the Government will be continuously updating and monitoring to ensure that monetary penalties are having the desired outcome, that they remain aware of any potential issues and that they can determine whether they need to modulate and change things? Does the Minister support the use of secondary legislation to increase scrutiny? As we have already discussed, the Government have sought to avoid the responsibility of accountability at ministerial and Government level by using statutory instruments for things like Ofwat’s remuneration and governance guidance. Can they not see that a bit of a discrepancy remains? If they are willing to use available powers to make change but not enhance powers, they might need to do that on other issues that we have discussed. Barring those comments and clarifying questions, we have no formal objections that we wish to raise.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  I thank the Minister for her comments. I can confirm that we will not push the amendment to a vote. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn .

• 9 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  The Opposition have no formal objections to the clause, but I do have a couple of clarifying questions. I realise I am getting into territory with which I have no familiarity. I am not a lawyer; I am a veterinary surgeon. When we are changing offences to make them more criminal, there are implications for the courts and for individuals. Although expanding the options available to the court when sentencing offenders who have not followed the rules is welcome, how have the Government ensured that the offences are clear, so that those who commit them face the full punishment if and when required? In terms of modelling the potential impact downstream, what work have the Government done to look at the situation retrospectively? If this provision had been law over the last few years, how many offenders would have been caught by it and potentially imprisoned? I realise that that is quite a technical question, but I wonder if the Government have looked at that at all. When we bring in laws, we need to ensure that we are aware of their implications and know how the legal and judicial system can exercise them. However, we have no formal opposition to the clause.