Michael Shanks MP: speeches 2024

Speeches

• 15 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Inspirational!

• 15 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I thank the hon. Gentleman for succinctly introducing his amendment; I will be succinct in my response. In debates about previous amendments, I made the points—I will not repeat them—that we should not add unnecessary burdens to the Bill or use the power in clause 6 for different purposes. I know he takes that argument seriously. Amendment 21 significantly widens clause 6 from its intention, which is why we will not support it. I reiterate, however, that Great British Energy will operate not through some extra-legal mechanism, but in the exact same way as every other company in the UK, and will be responsible in the usual way, under the Companies Act 2006, for the presentation of its accounts. In addition to filing those accounts, financial information, annual reports and so on with Companies House, they will of course be laid before Parliament, and I will personally make sure that the hon. Gentleman receives a copy the moment that it is printed—he can hold me to that—so that, quite rightly, he can scrutinise them. It is important to say that the day-to-day financial management of the company will be in line with Government regulations. The point of setting up Great British Energy as an independent company is that it will have an expert fiduciary board that will scrutinise the accounts in the usual manner. For those reasons, we do not think that amendment 21 is necessary.

• 15 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I think that doubling down on the language is not helpful either, but I will come back to both those points. I recognise the importance of the point about communities and a more strategic approach to infrastructure to ensure a balance. That is why we have commissioned the National Energy System Operator to look at the strategic spatial energy plan, which is important in how we look at energy in a strategic way. To say that communities are under siege is not the right language. This is nationally important infrastructure. The Opposition do not support Great British Energy, but as my hon. Friend the Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar said, Great British Energy is one mechanism whereby communities can benefit from infrastructure where they are not benefiting at the moment.

• 15 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I will not detain the Committee long, as we have already discussed aspects of the clause in our debates on the various helpful amendments tabled by the shadow Minister. Clause 6 will ensure that there is a mechanism in place purely for any unforeseen or urgent circumstances that may arise. For example, it could be used if the Secretary of State considers it necessary to give Great British Energy some kind of direction, in the interests of national security or otherwise, to respond to something in the public interest. This is about preparing for all eventualities, as we would expect of the Government. It is important to know that the power is very similar to that set out in other legislation of this kind. For example, it was included in the UK Infrastructure Bank Act 2023 and the Energy Act 2023 for Great British Nuclear. Finally, I hope the Committee will be reassured by the requirement in the clause for the Secretary of State to consult both Great British Energy and other appropriate stakeholders before issuing a direction. To ensure public transparency, as we would expect, any directions given to Great British Energy will be published and laid before Parliament. I commend the clause to the Committee. Question put and agreed to. Clause 6 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 7 Annual accounts and reports Question proposed , That the clause stand part of the Bill.

• 15 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I was going to end on an argument about why the Conservative party is in such a rut, but the hon. Gentleman has changed the tone completely. I feel lost with my political attacks, so I will move swiftly on to why new clause 3 is not necessary. I will not detain the Committee long. The argument is clear that there are quite established governance arrangements in place for companies of this type, and it is not necessary for primary legislation to make provision on the detail of the board of directors. There are a number of very well-established governance documents that set the course for this. The UK corporate governance code published by the Financial Reporting Council sets out best practice, to which Great British Energy will conform. The interim chair Juergen Maier, whom we met last week, is in place to start up the company. Recruitment is under way for other key posts, and the permanent chair and the non-executive directors will be recruited in due course. The governance code on public appointments will make it clear how those will be carried out; they will be regulated by the Commissioner for Public Appointments. Although I recognise the shadow Minister’s legitimate points about transparency and accountability, I think his new clause unnecessary. Rather than giving my prepared remarks criticising the Conservatives’ position, let me gently say that I am grateful that in the three days on which the Committee has met, the shadow Minister has moved closer and closer to voting Aye. I am confident that by Report he will be in the right Lobby. I welcome that move. I genuinely thank all hon. Members for serving on the Committee; it has been a pleasure. Dr Huq, I thank you and Sir Roger for your stewardship of the Committee, along with everyone who has been involved in delivering its sittings. I also thank all our witnesses who gave their time freely last Tuesday. It was quite a lengthy session, but they gave important evidence—not least because every single witness confirmed how important Great British Energy is to delivering our mission to move to clean power by 2030. As it has been three months now that I have had the privilege of having this job, I will finish by echoing the shadow Minister’s points, which were heartfelt, genuine and absolutely right, about the exceptional skill and qualifications of civil servants in what was once the Department of Energy and Climate Change. A change of Government is a considerable thing for the civil service, but it has moved at pace, as the Government have. I give real credit to the civil servants who make things happen and who so often do not get the credit for their hard work. I thank them all, and I thank hon. Members for their consideration. I do not support new clause 3, but I thank everyone for their time today.

• 15 Oct 2024 · Renewable Energy Projects: Community Benefits · Hansard source

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  It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again today, Dr Huq. It is good to look out and see so many of my colleagues from the Great British Energy Bill Committee here to discuss energy again. I am glad we got the Bill through Committee quickly enough for us to be here—we did not need our afternoon session. I do not have a huge amount of time, and I want to get to as many hon. Members’ contributions as possible. Of course, I want to leave the hon. Member for Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire (Mr MacDonald) time to conclude this important debate—I congratulate him on securing it. Hopefully he will see from the enthusiasm and the level of participation how important others find this subject. I know from his maiden speech and other contributions how important it is for him and his constituents. Just a few weeks ago, I had the real pleasure of visiting the hon. Gentleman’s constituency; I went to the Isle of Eigg to spend a day learning about the community energy project there. Although in some ways that project is unique, it is a very good example of how a whole community can benefit from such projects. The community genuinely has the power in its own hands—it has its own micro-generation grid—and it has received other benefits as people have upskilled themselves so that they can understand how the grid works and manage it. I thank all right hon. and hon. Members for their contributions. I will try to respond to as many as I can, but I will briefly start with the context. This Government have come to power facing three interlinked challenges—ensuring energy security, displaying climate leadership and bringing down bills for people across the country—to which our response is our clean power by 2030 mission. Clean power is the only way to protect our constituents from the rollercoaster of price spikes that we have faced over the past few years, and to deliver the climate leadership that we need. That is why we introduced the Great British Energy Bill within our first 100 days, and why it is progressing through Parliament as quickly as possible. Great British Energy, which will have its headquarters in Aberdeen, is an important part of our plan to increase the delivery speed of renewables projects and, crucially—I will come back to this point—to ensure that the British people have a stake in that energy future. The Conservative party has for many years accepted the premise of publicly owned energy companies, but it does not support the premise of the British people being part of a publicly owned energy company—just ownership by companies from beyond our shores. Of course, we welcome their investment in this country, but with Great British Energy, we are saying that we would also like the British public to have a part to play. A number of hon. Members made points about community ownership. Although this debate is about community benefits, I think, as some hon. Members have said, there are links between them. The Great British Energy Bill is about setting up the company, but there is a wider context in the Government’s local power plan, which commits to much more community ownership of energy, and ensuring that communities large and small have the funding and, crucially, the capacity to take forward some of those projects themselves. Delivering on our clean energy mission, which is undoubtedly ambitious, will require action on a number of fronts. I want to touch on infrastructure, which many hon. Members have mentioned. There is at the heart of the current Conservative party’s rhetoric on that subject a fundamental contradiction. We heard it from the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier), but I also heard almost exactly the same words from the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Andrew Bowie) on the shadow Front Bench in the Committee earlier today, where on the one hand, there is a recognition that we need significant upgrades to the grid, and yet on the other hand, there is no desire to make a commitment to building any new infrastructure to deliver it. Both those things cannot be true at the same time. I gently point out to Opposition Members that after 14 years of government, that is not a new problem. The grid did not suddenly fall apart in July 2024, with the Labour Government. That challenge has been facing the country for a long time. Indeed, I would meet Conservative Members halfway and say that even beyond the 14 years they were in government, there has been a challenge on the grid. However, they had 14 years to take action and did not. This Government are now moving forward. If we want to see the connections issue resolved, and community projects able to connect into the grid, as hon. Members have mentioned, we do need to build some of that infrastructure. That requires communities to host the infrastructure, so I turn to a number of points that were raised about how we work in partnership with communities—using collaboration, not coercion. It is important that the entire mission is a national one—for Government, but also to ensure that every member of the public is part of our achieving clean power by 2030. Key to that will be reforms to planning regulations. To deliver the critical infrastructure that this country needs, nationally significant infrastructure must be built; our planning system is holding that back. The planning and infrastructure Bill, which we will introduce shortly, will speed up and streamline the planning process. We will also be updating relevant national policy statements within the next year, in order to provide certainty to industry. In Scotland, the current electricity infrastructure consenting regime is from the Electricity Act 1989 and has not been updated in line with other legislation across the UK. The regime is too slow and is holding back investment. I am working closely with my Scottish Government counterparts on how we develop a set of proposals to reform that and speed up the new infrastructure development that we need. I come back to the point that hon. Members have rightly made—that as much as we need to streamline the planning process because we need to build the infrastructure, communities must be at the heart of it. Public engagement and consultation will continue to be incredibly important, but so also will be a more holistic approach to planning energy infrastructure in the first place. That has been the root cause of many of the challenges that hon. Members have raised today. The lack of strategic planning for some of our energy infrastructure in the past has led to bottlenecks, which we want to avoid in future. Finally, I turn to the point about communities living near clean energy infrastructure, including the transmission infrastructure that we need to build. Let us be clear: communities, by hosting that infrastructure, are providing a service to the country. It is essential that we build that infrastructure; it must be built somewhere. The challenge I have with some of the discussion on that subject is that we fall into the trap sometimes of saying, “Yes, we agree we need to upgrade the grid, but not anywhere near my constituency, please.” That will not work, unfortunately. We want to ensure that those communities that do host this infrastructure, on behalf of us all as a country, directly benefit from it. Communities are important, not just in terms of hosting infrastructure but in terms of the wider acceptance of the direction of travel that we are taking. We need communities to be with us if we are to achieve the necessary pace. At the moment, as has been raised, such community benefits are voluntary arrangements. They could be monetary or non-monetary schemes; there are a variety of different options across the country, some that work extremely well and others that, as many here know, do not work so well. The voluntary nature of arrangements for delivery of community benefits does lead to these significant variations.

• 15 Oct 2024 · Renewable Energy Projects: Community Benefits · Hansard source

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  That is a very important question and I was going to come to the hon. Gentleman’s specific point in a moment. He is absolutely right. Since I came into post, I have been working with my counterpart Ministers in the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland Governments on how we can work together. Clearly, in Northern Ireland that is slightly different because energy is transferred, so the policy levers are slightly different. However, we do have the same outcomes in mind throughout the UK, which is really important. I will continue to work with Conor Murphy and the wider Executive to bring us together as much as possible, because the hon. Member makes a very important point. On community benefits in particular, we are continuing—at pace—the work started by the previous Government to review how we can effectively deliver benefits for communities living near this infrastructure. We are looking at examples across Europe—we are not on this journey on our own; there are other countries that have been doing this for a very long time, and we are learning from that—and developing clear guidance on community benefits for both the infrastructure and the transmission networks. We will publish that in due course. Great British Energy’s role will be to build upon existing community energy schemes under way across England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. It will build on that experience to contribute more where it can. I shall now respond to a few of the specific points raised by hon. Members. The point on solar projects, raised by the hon. Member for Glastonbury and Somerton (Sarah Dyke)—who is not in her place, but I will write to her on this—is an incredibly important one. Part of the aim of the solar taskforce set up by the previous Government and reconvened by this Government is to set out a very clear pathway for these projects. Several hon. Members mentioned standing charges. The Government are looking at that issue right now. We accept that far too much of a burden and too much of bills comes from standing charges and we are working with the regulator to do much more about that. Although I listed 12 other points from hon. Members, I am conscious that I have eight minutes in which to cover them. To allow the hon. Member for Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire time to wind up the debate, I will close by saying that as a Government we take this issue very seriously. Our ambition is to bring communities with us on this journey. We want to do that through a collaborative approach, with all hon. Members, but also with communities at the heart of this. We will have much more to say on that in the weeks and months ahead.

• 14 Oct 2024 · Nuclear Industry: Cumbria · Hansard source

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  I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Whitehaven and Workington (Josh MacAlister) not only on securing this important debate and managing to get a considerable turnout for an Adjournment debate, but genuinely on the passion that he has brought, on behalf of his constituents, to this issue. I think he has had more meetings with Ministers in my Department than any other Member of this House in the past three months, and that is a credit to him. In his opening remarks, he spoke passionately about the importance of nuclear and the need for this Government to pick up from where the previous Government left off, having built no new nuclear in 14 years. We are picking up this work at speed. It has barely moved forward since my right hon. Friend the Energy Secretary was previously in the role, 14 years ago. I welcome this opportunity to set out the Government’s position. Cumbria is vital to the UK’s energy, defence and nuclear industry, from Barrow-in-Furness, where the Ministry of Defence is building and maintaining nuclear submarines; to Drigg, where the low-level waste repository disposes of nuclear waste; to Seascale, which is home to the most significant nuclear facility in the country; and finally to Carlisle, where Nuclear Transport Solutions, owner of Direct Rail Services, operates a crucial railhead for nuclear transport. Each of these locations plays a vital role in our nation’s nuclear infrastructure, ensuring safety, security and innovation in the nuclear sector. As my hon. Friend outlined, Cumbria’s journey has been a remarkable one, of achievements, technological advancements and steadfast commitment—a testament to the people in this area, who have opened their arms to nuclear and who continue to do so. The story begins post world war two, a time of rapid scientific progress in the global nuclear race. As my hon. Friend the Member for Whitehaven and Workington noted, the Calder Hall nuclear power station—opened by Her Majesty in 1956—was the world’s first commercial nuclear power station, generating electricity for 47 years and providing valuable insights into reactor operations. In the 1980s, the site underwent a significant transformation and was renamed Sellafield. That name change signified the site’s broader mission, shifting from solely plutonium production to encompass a wide range of nuclear activities including fuel reprocessing, waste management and environmental restoration. As the nuclear industry matured, Sellafield’s focus shifted once again towards decommissioning and environmental clean-up. The Nuclear Decommissioning Authority, established under the Energy Act 2004, oversees nuclear decommissioning across the UK. Its mission is to clean up the legacy of nuclear waste safely, securely and cost-effectively. Sellafield is central to that mission: spread across some 276 hectares in Cumbria, it is tasked with decommissioning ageing nuclear facilities, managing nuclear fuel and materials, and ensuring the safe disposal of nuclear waste. The site uses advanced technologies and expert knowledge to tackle those challenges, showcasing the innovation and resilience of the UK’s nuclear industry. Tackling the UK’s civil nuclear legacy safely, securely and cost-effectively is a national priority, with more than £3 billion being invested this year alone to ensure the NDA and its subsidiaries continue its mission to clean up the UK’s nuclear legacy. Under the Energy Act, the NDA also has the supplementary function of promoting economic development, social wellbeing and environmental sustainability. Figures on the NDA’s economic contribution to west Cumbria show that its local activity supported £1.3 billion of gross value added across the local economy, which is 40% of the total gross value added for the entire area. That is why this Government’s commitment to new nuclear—which I restate—is so important. My hon. Friend and a number of my colleagues rightly mentioned the standstill approach of the previous Government: a lot of warm words, but 14 years of inaction. I notice that no Conservative Members are in the Chamber this evening. The legacy of nuclear activity in north-west Cumbria is important, but so too is its future. It continues to inspire confidence and optimism, with a decommissioning mission lasting over 100 years. The NDA and Sellafield will continue to contribute to the community of west Cumbria and remain at the forefront of that vital work. Of course, the region also remains a pioneer in nuclear research and development, contributing to advancements in reactor technology, waste management and environmental protection. The lessons that we learn from Sellafield are invaluable assets right across the country and the world, guiding future endeavours in the nuclear sector. We welcome the continued engagement of the two Cumbrian communities involved in the national process to find a suitable site for a geological disposal facility. It is a unique process whereby the local community will have the final say on whether it wants to host that facility. As my hon. Friend the Member for Whitehaven and Workington outlined, west Cumbria is also home to Moorside, a previously designated potential new nuclear site and one of several that has the capability to host future civil nuclear projects. That site’s location—adjacent to Sellafield—would need to be factored into any future considerations, and any prioritisation of projects in west Cumbria will of course take into account how to maximise public benefit. As we look to the future of Cumbria’s nuclear industry, we face both exciting opportunities and significant challenges. To meet the demands of our growing nuclear programme and to have a workforce pipeline, industry modelling suggests that we need to fill 40,000 jobs by 2030. That means we must more than double our current recruitment rates to ensure we have the skilled workforce necessary to drive our nuclear ambitions forward. The skills challenge can only be tackled through cross-sector collaborative action, and the Government remain steadfast in their commitment to work closely with the nuclear sector to deliver on those actions, in order to build a workforce that is ready to meet the demands of the future. Cumbria’s nuclear future is bright, and with continued collaboration and dedication we will ensure that it remains at the forefront of the nuclear industry, driving innovation and sustainability for generations to come. I want to turn to the specific questions my hon. Friend raised about the land at Moorside. On whether the Government can make clear the primacy of new nuclear on the sites currently listed in the 2011 national policy statement, the statement listed eight sites as being potentially suitable for the deployment of new nuclear by 2025. The sites were nominated to that process by third parties, and it was never intended that listing such sites should restrict their future use. Any nuclear project at these potential sites must be subject to development consent or to examination and approval, as well as site licensing and other regulatory requirements. On whether Great British Nuclear could consider the technical potential of Moorside without potential future decommissioning projects nearby, I note that GBN has considered a number of sites, including Moorside, from both a project delivery and a technical perspective. The fact is, however, that the location of the site adjacent to Sellafield does need to be factored into any consideration. Any interaction between existing or future projects could introduce additional complexity, potential pressures on supporting local infrastructure and increased delivery risk. I want to assure the House that use of the land at Moorside will undoubtedly bring investment and employment opportunities in the region, and any decisions will be made with the utmost priority given to the maximisation of opportunity for the local community. West Cumbria’s nuclear history shows its commitment to scientific progress, environmental stewardship and public safety, and by working together we can ensure the best possible outcome as we navigate the complexities of nuclear decommissioning, waste management and this Government’s absolute commitment to new nuclear. Question put and agreed to.

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I agree with the broad arc of what the right hon. Gentleman has just said, but there is no mechanism for Great British Energy to impose anything on the Scottish Parliament. The whole point I was making is that it is important to recognise that Great British Energy has to operate within whatever framework any Scottish Government set for it.

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I am enjoying this debate more and more. I feel that by the end of today, or Tuesday at a push, we may get the hon. Gentleman’s support for Great British Energy. I look forward to that. The very argument that the hon. Gentleman has put forward for both amendments emphasises the absolute failure of 14 years of his Government. The very fact that he is making those points emphasises how much they failed. I welcome the realisation, albeit somewhat late, that manufacturing in the UK and having jobs in this country delivering for the energy future are important. The Kincardine wind farm off the coast not far from his constituency—perhaps it is in his constituency—is a very good example. It was towed into place, with all the jobs offshored somewhere else. That example that shows why we need to do things differently. Great British Energy and our industrial strategy are part of that. While I could spend this time criticising the previous Government, I will simply welcome the fact that the hon. Gentleman has showed up to the party at all. This is a key part of what Great British Energy will do. The supply chains are critical, because 80% of the jobs in the oil and gas industry are in the supply chains, and the good, well-paid jobs we need for the future will be there too. I think it might have been the witness from the GMB who made a very good point about jobs in welding. That is a good example of where we can have real, well-paid jobs for the future if we invest in those skills now, and that is exactly what Great British Energy will do. However, Great British Energy is not the only part that will deliver on those jobs. The Department for Business and Trade is also working at pace to develop an industrial strategy that will include detailed work on the supply chains, and we are working through the various taskforces launched under the previous Government and continued by this Government. For example, on the solar taskforce we have been looking clearly at how we can bring those jobs to the UK. The hon. Gentleman rightly talked about the security of where some of those manufacturing jobs are in the world—places in the world that we would rather they were not. Bringing some of that manufacturing capacity to the UK will be difficult in some of those industries, but it is important to do it so that we have resilient, diverse and sustainable supply chains. My Department has also established an office for clean energy jobs, which will focus on developing the skills and the training for the workforce in core energy and net zero sectors around the transition, but also, critically, on bringing on the next generation of apprentices and workers in the skills and jobs that we did not know existed until the last few years. That will ensure the sustainability of our supply chains and meet our mission to make the UK a clean energy superpower. Although it is welcome to hear the commitments from a Conservative party that has had something of a conversion on this issue, we do not think that amendments 17 and 18 are necessary to the Bill, because the Government are already committed to delivering our intentions.

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I think my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough has a lot to answer for, with the metaphors that have now started, but the hon. Lady makes a serious point. I would just gently challenge one point that she makes. The statement of strategic priorities is not about giving every detail on all the objects. The direction of the company is already very clear. The reason that the objects have been left broad is so that the company can explore opportunities in all those areas without having to come back and get direction on every single point.

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I thank my hon. Friend for her well-made point. Across the UK, we are resetting the way we do these relationships. It is not just the visits and set-piece moments; it is the day-to-day engagement and agreement. There is fulsome discussion and disagreement, but it leads to the view that, actually, we generally agree on the same outcomes and want to work out how to work co-operatively to achieve them. That is what the public would want us to do across these islands. I will point out some of the engagement we have already had. The First Minister met recently with the start-up chair of Great British Energy and the Cabinet Secretary. I have met the Cabinet Secretary almost every week that I have been in post. It is important to talk through these issues and we think that consultation on the statement of strategic priorities is incredibly important. I object to the amendment to move to a consent process for exactly the same reason that I gave in answer to the previous point. It is not that I do not want any engagement, but that I do not want us to get tied up in a process. In our engagement with Scottish colleagues, the challenge is how the Government reflect the view of the Scottish Parliament without everything going back through a process in committees. My real worry is that we get tied up in months and months of engagement, trying to find dates in calendars to discuss elements of the strategic plan, and do not actually get on with delivering things.

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  That is not what I said at all. What I said a moment ago is exactly the same, which is that in the short term—in the start-up phase of the company—there will be a few hundred people. That is exactly what Juergen Maier said. In future, our aim—particularly with the right hon. Gentleman’s support, which I was not expecting at the start of today—is that it will grow even further, into a much bigger company. As a result, we expect that there could very well be thousands of jobs in the headquarters in Aberdeen. I am not ruling anything out or limiting the potential of Great British Energy, and I hope that the right hon. Gentleman is not either. I make this point again, for the benefit of the right hon. Gentleman: critically, that is not the limit of the jobs that will be created by Great British Energy. It is important to recognise that the jobs potential will come from the investments and partnerships that it makes.

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  The devolved Administrations in terms of the Governments—I thank the right hon. Gentleman. The first thing to say is that the statement of strategic priorities cannot overrule the objectives in the Bill. If an incoming Government—I will not say “nefarious” or otherwise—were seeking to use Great British Energy for a whole other purpose, they would not be able to, because the legislation sets out exactly what it will be used for, and that will be in the articles of association. Those objects set the overarching framework for Great British Energy’s activities and it is right that this framework is in legislation passed by Parliament and debated here today in clause 3. Were we to move to a point where we required parliamentary approval of the statement of strategic priorities, which is only designed to provide direction in the priorities that the Government sets for the company, we would create unnecessary burdens on the company. Going back to the points in the Lib Dem amendments from earlier, I am concerned that, rather than Great British Energy getting on with delivering, we would end up in a constant cycle in which people add various things—I think someone said “baubles” earlier on, but I am not sure that I will continue that metaphor—into the statement of strategic priorities that would take away from it actually delivering the objects that we will hopefully pass in this Bill.

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  It is a pleasure, Sir Roger, to serve in this Committee under your—

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I will start where the brilliant speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield Hallam left off. It is a bit rich for the Opposition to talk about fixing the issue with jobs in the renewables sector that they failed to fix for 14 years. First, I take the issue that the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine raised about jobs in Aberdeen, because it is an extremely important subject, but I think he confuses two things— I would suggest perhaps deliberately. Juergen Maier clearly said on Tuesday that the headquarters of Great British Energy in Aberdeen will have jobs in the hundreds, perhaps expanding in the years ahead, but that the jobs created by Great British Energy are much more than the headquarters. We have always said that it is the investments that Great British Energy makes that will invest in jobs in Aberdeen, in the north-east of Scotland and right across the UK, in the tens of thousands. That is important to separate out. The hon. Gentleman’s point about the transition is really important, both to the Bill and more broadly. He is right: long before this Labour Government were elected, there was a transition under way in the north-east of Scotland. It is a declining mature basin. It is important that we now take seriously what that transition looks like, and that will require tens of thousands of new, skilled and—crucially, for the north-east of Scotland in particular—well-paid jobs. That is what we are attempting to do with Great British Energy but, as my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield Hallam says, Great British Energy is not the only vehicle for it. We have deliberately said that we will set out an industrial strategy, because we are not a Government who think that manufacturing jobs in this country and an industrial strategy are an irrelevance. Actually, they are critical to our economic future.

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I will answer the previous intervention first. The point of having an independent company—this is why it is used as a mechanism by Governments of all types—is that it can have the flexibility to move. That flexibility is within the very strict parameters set by Government, but with a broad scope to move into opportunities as they arise.

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  The right hon. Gentleman tempts me into discussing both independence and the future of the Conservative party, but for your sake, Sir Roger, I will not go into either, although I hope there will be such opportunities in the future. I will make two points in response to the amendment, and there is a broader point, which I will stay off for the moment, that we will return to in the next series of amendments around the role of the devolved Administrations—

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I will take the amendments in turn, starting with amendment 13, tabled by the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine. The creation of Great British Energy allows us to harness clean energy and have less reliance on volatile energy markets. I must resist the amendment for a number of reasons. Parts of the various amendments are linked, so I will deal with what they have in common. First, a founding principle of Great British Energy is that it should be operationally independent. The Bill is clearly about making the minimum necessary provision to establish the company. Adding further unnecessary detail, as we have talked about with regard to various amendments today, risks restricting the company in carrying out its activities and going against our commitment to the British public. The hon. Gentleman will be familiar with this model of legislation, given his involvement with pieces of legislation such as on the UK Infrastructure Bank. We heard from a number of witnesses on Tuesday that they want the Bill to be broad enough to allow Great British Energy to move into different opportunities as they arise but, clearly, the focus we have set out for it concerns the long-term energy security of the country and bringing down bills. Secondly, the Secretary of State has the power—we will come on to this, I have no doubt—to set the strategic priorities. It is right that the statement of strategic priorities sets out what Great British Energy’s objectives are. As the hon. Gentleman knows, because he and other hon. Members have referred to it at various points, we live in an increasingly unstable world. The last few years have brought that to the front of our consciousness. Our energy security and the protection we need to give to bill payers mean that we need to speed up the transition from fossil fuels to home-grown clean energy. We are unwavering in our commitment to that as a long-term project and a cornerstone of our sustainable plan to safeguard bill payers for good. In speaking to these amendments, the hon. Gentleman referred to our witnesses on Tuesday and the fact that putting more green energy on the grid reduces overall costs. I agree with him on that, but it is therefore important to recognise that Great British Energy is a vehicle to speed up that process. Measures under the previous Government, of which he was of course part, made that more and more difficult—for example, the onshore wind ban, which one of his colleagues said was “always mad”. We need to recognise that this is a change of direction. If we agree that the only way to bring down bills and reduce the wholesale cost for good is to move to more secure home-grown green energy, we need to have the full commitment of Government to deliver that. I will now turn to amendment 14, which would require the Secretary of State to give “specific direction to Great British Energy that it must report…on the progress made by Great British Energy towards” electricity prices. The report set out in the hon. Gentleman’s amendment must be made within two years of Royal Assent. We will resist the amendment today, because we think it is unnecessary. As I have already outlined, the shift to clean energy is about increasing home-grown power and accelerating the reduction of our exposure to international markets. Broader than Great British Energy, the Government are running a series of programmes and reforms to pass on cheaper renewables to consumers. For example, as we mentioned earlier, there is the review of electricity market arrangements. As a publicly owned company, Great British Energy will be accountable through regular reporting to the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero. Furthermore, like other arm’s length bodies of Government, it will be accountable to Parliament, but will operate independently, at arm’s length, from Ministers. That is important, because the point of setting up a publicly owned energy company independent of Government is to bring in the skills and experience of an executive board and staff who will not be directed day to day by Government, but will, of course, work within the parameters that we have set it. As I have said in response to a number of amendments today, adding further unnecessary detail risks restricting the company in carrying out its activities, and is against what we have said in setting out the Bill.

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I thank the hon. Gentleman for that important point. Early on in the development of the Bill, we had a genuine conversation with the Northern Irish Executive about whether Northern Ireland should be included in the Bill at all, on the basis—exactly as he says—that energy is completely transferred in Northern Ireland. We agreed that it was better to keep Northern Ireland in scope so that some of the benefits may come to Northern Ireland, in particular around skills and supply chains, but clearly the relationship will be very different. We do not anticipate Great British Energy funding specific projects, for example, for the reasons that he outlined. The broader point here is a reiteration of an earlier point: Great British Energy will not have special powers compared with any other company. It is therefore important to recognise that if Great British Energy is delivering projects in Scotland, it will have to conform to Scottish planning and all the other regulations and consenting regimes in Scotland exactly as any other company operating in Scotland would. It will not have additional powers to supersede any of the regulations set by the Scottish Parliament. That is important because, clearly, although the funding will come from the UK Government through Great British Energy, the delivery of those projects, if in Scotland, will largely be the responsibility of the Scottish Parliament through the environmental planning and consenting regimes. Great British Energy will not have additional powers to supersede any of those regulations.

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I would have stopped short of the hon. Gentleman’s final point, which I will not repeat; I think that was more to salve his own conscience than to add any value to the debate. He may want to speak to the other side about some of those discussions to get a sense of whether the joyous relationship that he described was reciprocated. The fact is that if we want to achieve outcomes across the UK, whatever the political differences—they are significant, and he is right that they will become more significant in the few years ahead—we still need to be the grown-ups in the room and work to deliver them. My engagement has been very much around how we bring in the views of Welsh, Northern Irish and Scottish colleagues.

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  For reasons I will come to in a moment, we will not agree to the amendment because we will not put timeframes and numbers in the Bill—we do not see those in any piece of legislation from the previous Government or any other Government, and for very good reason. However, the hon. Lady is right that this decade is absolutely critical for this issue. That is why I am taking it very seriously, and will happily have conversations with her about how we get these jobs as quickly as possible. The timeframe for that is important, but it is also important that we start with building things such as Great British Energy, which I hope she will support, and our broader policy around the office for clean energy jobs, our industrial strategy and our increased investment in things such as the renewables auction. To come back to what the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine said about offshore wind, he took some credit for it, but of course his Government have to take responsibility for the complete failure on offshore wind in the last auction. We have turned that around with some really successful projects and want to build considerably more in the future. He gave an absolute masterclass for a new Minister like me on how to speak to something—the onshore energy ban in England—that I know he does not believe in, because he is a smart guy. The reality is that that was ideology over delivery of something critically important. Now, we have inherited not just a lack of projects that would help us towards clean power and deliver jobs right across the UK, but an empty pipeline of projects, given the length of time where wind in England was banned. It is a ridiculous policy that I do not believe for a second the hon. Gentleman supports, but it was a very good example for me on how to deliver a line. As I said earlier, this clause is specifically about giving very particular, rare directions in urgent or unforeseen circumstances. It is not a clause we expect the Secretary of State to be using regularly. That is important, because I suspect that if it was phrased in any other way, the hon. Gentleman would quite rightly propose an amendment limiting the powers of the Secretary of State to doing exactly that. This clause is about ensuring that Great British Energy has the space to fulfil its strategic priorities. Amendment 16 would widen that intention by adding a long-term goal. More broadly, and relevant to both the hon. Gentleman’s amendments, I repeat that the aim of Great British Energy is to be operationally independent from Government. The Bill focuses solely on making the absolutely necessary provisions to establish the company. Adding further unnecessary detail—detail I know the Conservative party would not dream of adding to any of its own legislation—risks restricting the company in carrying out its activities and goes against what we have said. That sentiment was supported by almost every witness, including on specific questions about this matter, where I think people were hoping for different answers. Every single witness confirmed that the Bill is in the right place here. For those reasons, and many others, we will not be supporting the amendments.

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I take that point. I will come back to the role of the UK Government in Great British Energy in a moment, as it is important. Of course I want to engage with Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish colleagues in this place, but I also want to find a way to engage constructively with the devolved Parliaments and Administrations, not just on the statement of priorities but far beyond that. We have already had conversations about how the board of Great British Energy might engage with the Scottish Government on a more regular basis. We are very open to those ideas, but—to come back to this point briefly—it is important that Great British Energy is funded and directed by the UK Government and therefore ultimately responsible to the UK Parliament.

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  These are very important amendments, as I alluded to when discussing the last group of amendments. Since I became a Minister, I have worked very hard to reset the relationship. Indeed, the Prime Minister’s first official visit was, deliberately, to Scotland. He has set a clear expectation that all Ministers should be engaging with not just the Scottish Government but the Welsh Government and the Administration in Northern Ireland. That is particularly important in the energy space, because our priorities are broadly aligned. There are slight differences in targets and projects, but we all want to move in the same direction across all Governments of the United Kingdom, which is beneficial.

• 10 Oct 2024 · Great British Energy Bill (Fourth sitting) · Hansard source

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  The hon. Lady is well versed in how Parliament works, and there are a number of mechanisms already open to Parliament to scrutinise the work of the Department and the Secretary of State. Indeed, the transparency around clause 5 is that this will be laid before Parliament in the same way that the priorities for the UK Infrastructure Bank and various other independent companies are laid before Parliament. On the hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire’s second point, which I did not get to and is a very fair point, we are not seeking to design something behind closed doors that has no engagement. I have taken a lot of meetings in the three months that I have been a Minister, and I am very happy to take many more. We want to hear a broad range of views on this and we are happy to discuss it, but there is a balance between having an open approach to how we create, draft and bring ideas together, and ending up with a document—in the end, it will not be a huge document—that just goes round a process for months on end and stops the company from getting on with what we want it to do. We heard from all the witnesses on Tuesday that speed is important; we do not want to waste any time, and I think that the Liberal Democrats support that approach. We want to get on and do it, and that is important. As I said earlier, I will come on to the point about the devolved Governments and the engagement that we plan with them in due course. Furthermore, in setting up a company, the company is subject to all the requirements that other companies are, in terms of Companies House and having to produce annual accounts and an annual report. The activities of the board will also, of course, be available so that people can see what decisions the company is making. It is important that this company is at arm’s length from Government but has all the benefits of being publicly owned, in that it is required to manage the stewardship of public funds in a careful and accountable way. In my view, the amendment is unnecessary, as the processes are already in place to scrutinise the work of Great British Energy and the work of the Department more generally. We will not be accepting the amendment today.