Meg Hillier MP: speeches 2025

Speeches

• 20 May 2025 · UK-EU Summit · Hansard source

  More

  I congratulate the Prime Minister on this achievement, on top of two great trade deals. This is important if we are trying to deliver growth in the economy. Could the Prime Minister outline what he thinks the two or three main gains are to boost the economy in short order, so that we can build the public spending that we so badly need?

• 19 May 2025 · Gender Self-identification · Hansard source

  More

  My hon. Friend is making an important point. The gender recognition certificate is often destroyed by trans people because they have their new birth certificate. The certificate itself is not always an extant document.

• 19 May 2025 · Gender Self-identification · Hansard source

  More

  Under the previous Trump Administration, the British Foreign Office issued a travel warning to trans people because of the so-called bathroom ban—well, the actual bathroom ban—in parts of the United States. Yet now we are in a position where many trans women and trans men are very frightened about using toilets. Does my hon. Friend agree that Government action is needed?

• 19 May 2025 · Gender Self-identification · Hansard source

  More

  My hon. Friend highlights an important point. Many people have been in touch with me who are very frightened because of the Supreme Court ruling. Does he agree that not only do we need to speak here but that the Government need to make sure the interim guidance is quickly firmed up as proper guidance, because the interim guidance is causing confusion and fear for so many people?

• 19 May 2025 · Gender Self-identification · Hansard source

  More

  Does the hon. Lady not agree that the Equality Act was well written to deal with intersectional issues when they arise, that the guidance around it was very clear, and that this Supreme Court ruling has muddied that. As she says, the Government may need to step in to resolve this.

• 19 May 2025 · Gender Self-identification · Hansard source

  More

  It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Mundell. I have many constituents who have been really affected by the Supreme Court ruling. I highlight one who works in the ambulance service; she has breasts and uses women’s changing facilities without any issue. Were she to be forced into using other facilities, it would declare to everybody her transgender status. She has lived as a woman and has a gender recognition certificate. Dos the hon. Member agree that this legal ruling creates a real mess that needs sorting out?

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  I need to make progress. On the issue of children making a decision at the age of 18, they could have a conversation with someone about dying and then on their 18th birthday sign on the dotted line; the conversation would not even have to be at that point. We need to understand that even at the age of 18 or 19, young people’s brains are in a different place on this. If we pass the Bill, we are saying that at the age of 18, 19 or 20, people could have an assisted death. We need to understand the ramification of that for those people. I want to ensure that I cover some of the other points that hon. Members have made. I do not have time to go through all the amendments that play into this, but strengthening the panel and the safeguards, as well as the issues that hon. Members have raised around coercion and capacity, are very important. There has not, however, been time to work through how those issues have an impact on younger people. If only I had time to go into some of the evidence I have received—I have only been able to give a hasty run-through because of the pressure on time today, which is a sign of the challenges of the process. We have not got time to go into the detail that we need to consider. Socialisation is important. Social media has a very big impact and we need to understand that that will have an impact on young people making their decisions.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  I need to make some progress. Madam Deputy Speaker, I am trying to speak at great pace. Teenagers are passionate about their beliefs and peers can change their minds in a way that their parents often cannot. There is not always a logical decision-making path. A doctor would carry weight. In response to the point made by the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine), a child may be thinking about dying but somebody—that doctor or professional—could make their decision a legitimate option. There are many issues in palliative care. We talked about Gillick competency, but to be clear, young people under the age of 18 can make their own decisions about healthcare. Even young people under the age of 16 can have such conversations because of Gillick competency, which is a good principle, but the issues around mental capacity and Gillick competency are often not well put in place—

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  I am trying to do the maths on my timing. I fear I have run out of time. I would like to speak for longer, but I sense from the mood of the House, and from you, Madam Deputy Speaker, that hon. Members do not wish me to do that. I am very concerned that the issues have not been properly discussed. I again remind hon. Members that if we vote on the Bill, these matters have not been fully tested with the professions concerned, as we have heard from the Royal College of Psychiatrists this week and from many of the other professions who would have to grapple with the legislation in practical terms. What we are doing now is legislating for the real practice of delivering those measures, and we have not had time to fully explore that.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  I do not have time to completely unpick the hon. Lady’s points, but to have something positively suggested is a big issue for young people, so the social media aspect is important. The social network matters. At the point of puberty, teenagers will look to their social group, which will massively influence their behaviour in a way that their families will not. Adolescents are more likely to take risks: their neurodevelopmental underpinnings are different, and pathways between the rational and the emotional parts of the brain are not fully developed. In “a hot situation”, where there is a lot of emotion, they take more risks, particularly because they do not have the ability to think about the counterfactual. In this case, the counterfactual is not being here anymore; that is a very difficult thing for a lot people to understand, particularly young people. The ability of young people to think flexibly and change their minds is in the front of the brain, which does not always react to the—

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  I thank my hon. Friend for his point, which brings me to something I really want to address. As I said in my opening remarks, these are imperfect amendments. I will get into some of the conversations that I have had with a number of people about this. I am one person; I have not been able to consult the BMA, as a Government or a sponsor could, for example, but I am aware of its concerns. However, we are talking here about very definite and irreversible decisions on life and death. I know that many doctors have had conversations about that, but not to the level required to legislate for it. This is a different set of circumstances, but I very much appreciate his point.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  I have said no to my hon. Friend—I have moved on from the points that she wanted to talk about. The law is ambiguous about Gillick competency. The Mental Capacity Act 2005 and Gillick competency triangulates through the person but also the condition, so it relates to the complexity of the condition as well as to the individual. Peer pressure is a big part of what has an impact on people, as well as the view of the professional or doctor.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  Let me finish my point about doctors’ advice before I move on to the issue of 18-year-olds. Dr Alexandra Mullock, who is a senior lecturer in medical law and co-director of the centre for social ethics and policy at the University of Manchester, said in written evidence to the Bill Committee: “The freedom for a registered medical practitioner (RMP) to raise/discuss the option of seeking help to die in clause 4(2) is ethically problematic.” She also highlighted: “Professional advice regarding treatment will be received by the patient as a recommendation”, as the hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Dr Johnson) said. That is a really big concern. The UK coalition for deaf and disabled people is very concerned, and would like this provision removed as well.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  Speaking of doctors, I give way to the hon. Lady.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. If I have time, I will touch on social media, but I want to put on the record my thanks to some of the professionals who gave of their time to speak to me in preparation for my amendment.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. My concern is that this is the last debate on these amendments. It is in the control of the Chair whether to grant a vote on a closure motion. I simply make that point, as I am sure you heard, Madam Deputy Speaker.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  I must make progress. I also want to talk about how the teenage brain works. The Bill would apply to a young person at the age of 18. A month or so after they reach that age, they could undertake an assisted death. Let me highlight some of the good conversations that I have had with people who have generously given their time to speak with me about these important issues, which I am worried have not been addressed at any point in the Bill’s passage, except for a short and important discussion in Committee.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  I rise to speak to new clauses 1 and 2, which stand in my name, and consequential amendment 2, and I will touch on others at the end. These amendments—without being dismissive of those who helped me draft them—are imperfect. Those of us who are not the promoter of the Bill have not had the support of Government drafters in tidying up the Bill. We need to acknowledge that the Bill in front of us today is the Bill—more or less—that will or will not be passed by this House. For any amendments made, by the point of Third Reading, that is it—there will be no further opportunity to redraft them. Sadly, one of these amendments was rejected in Committee. If those changes had been discussed before the original Bill was published, or even in evidence before Committee, we would have been in a better place to get that tighter drafting that is needed in making good legislation. We are not a debating society; we are now legislating for a law that would enable the state to assist in people taking their lives. I am sad that we are able to discuss these amendments only now. I did not get the opportunity to be on the Bill Committee, but I commend all Members who spend so many hours discussing and debating those issues. The ramifications of the clauses I want to talk about are important for potential users of a service, for medical professionals, for families and for other health professionals. The Bill currently allows doctors to suggest assisted dying to a patient who has not raised it themselves. This, I believe—as I know many others do—presents a serious risk that terminally ill patients, already highly vulnerable, will feel pressured to end their lives.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  The hon. Gentleman highlights an important point in relation to my amendment and others: in this House, we made coercive control illegal in legislation only in recent years. This is such a big issue, and what is different about the Bill—this is why some positions are particularly challenging—is that we are talking about irreversible decisions. I want to talk a bit about how the teenage brain works. Children and young people are particularly susceptible to being influenced, including into dangerous and risky behaviour. In a number of countries, assisted dying laws have been expanded to allow children and young people to end their lives. We need to be alert to that very real risk. I am impressed by the work of the Children’s Commissioner, who recently published a report into children’s views on assisted dying. It was heart wrenching to read. Those with illnesses and disabilities were particularly concerned about what the Bill means for them. These children have not really had a voice in the debate so far, and there is talk about whether the Bill may apply to children with life limiting or severe progressive diseases.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Many people have put in to speak today, and we appreciate the huge challenge to you, chairing this debate, and for the Speaker’s Office. It is normal for private Members’ Bills that the debate continues in an orderly and proper fashion so that everyone can have their say. We appreciate that that is much more challenging in these circumstances, but we have heard many times that we are running out of time, Members are not taking interventions because of concerns about time, and the informal time limit has dropped to five minutes. I am aware that the Front Benchers still need to speak. It is in the power of the Chair, of course, to refuse any suggestion of a closure motion. I would like to ask you whether there is any thinking going on about whether this debate can continue. Many of those who have tabled amendments have not yet been called to speak, and I, for one, would like to hear their points of view.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  I need to get into the arguments for my two new clauses, so I will not take any more interventions for the time being. I believe that there is a serious risk that terminally ill patients, who are already vulnerable, could feel pressured into ending their lives sooner than they would wish to. We know of examples of patients who felt suicidal and low at the point of diagnosis, and at that point they are vulnerable—this is not the debate in which to make points about that—but often, with good care and pain relief, they can move away from that decision. There is also the issue about the burden on family.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  I thank the hon. Lady.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. Given her many years as a constituency MP in the same borough as me, we both know many such vulnerable people. Dr Rachel Clarke, a hospital palliative care doctor, said: ‘If, for instance, you say to a vulnerable patient who has just been told they have a diagnosis of terminal cancer, “Have you thought about assisted dying?”, I would suggest that stating it broadly like that is a form of pressure and that you are potentially unintentionally coercing that patient.’ –– [ Official Report, Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Public Bill Committee, 28 January 2025; c. 75, Q93.] So we are in a very difficult space, as my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Dr Opher) highlighted, with his background as a practising GP. We recognise that. As I have said, this is an imperfect process to deal with that challenge, but it is a very different set of circumstances compared with the other advice that doctors give.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  Not at the moment. I had some very interesting conversations with Sophie Scott, professor of cognitive neuroscience at University College London; Sallie Baxendale, professor of clinical neuropsychology at UCL; Sarah-Jayne Blakemore, professor of psychology and cognitive neuroscience at the University of Cambridge; Dr Richard Hain, consultant and clinical lead, all-Wales managed clinical network in paediatric palliative medicine at Cardiff and Vale university health board; and Dr Anna-Karenia Anderson, consultant in paediatric palliative medicine and medical director for Shooting Star children’s hospice. I am only sad that there has not been a bigger debate, because the process has not allowed for one. I apologise to them in advance that I will not be able to do justice in the time that I have to the very many careful and thoughtful points that they raised.

• 16 May 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill · Hansard source

  More

  I have said no—I need to explain the issues, and give due credit to the people who have assisted me in raising them. Adolescents’ brains develop differently. From the age of puberty, there is a rapid change in how young people make decisions. As adults, we have the experience to imagine what the future might look like, but younger people, up to about the age of 25, often cannot plan or predict their future because that part of the brain has not developed well, and they are not good at understanding regret. The comparisons are different for adults. Role models and social groups matter a great deal.