Liz Saville Roberts MP: speeches 2025

Speeches

• 18 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-fourth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  The hon. Gentleman mentions subsection (7). Subsection (8) states quite clearly that it “does not authorise the coordinating doctor to administer an approved substance to another person with the intention of causing that person’s death.” I think the passive and active roles are quite clear between the two subsections.

• 12 Mar 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Impact on Employment · Hansard source

  More

  If the Government agreed with the Secretary of State’s counterpart in Cardiff, we would have the money from the Crown Estate as well. Back in 2015, the Secretary of State and I walked through the same Lobby to vote against what she then described as despicable Tory welfare cuts, and she dared the break the Labour Whip to do so. Given the evidence of her strong convictions on the issue, how can she justify remaining in a Cabinet that is intent on implementing Tory-style welfare cuts?

• 12 Mar 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Impact on Employment · Hansard source

  More

  Diolch yn fawr iawn, Lefarydd. I am sure the House will join me in remembering the Llandow air disaster in which 80 people lost their lives 75 years ago. Elaine’s Hair and Beauty Salon in Llanrug, Pitian Patian Nursery in Llanwnda and care homes and GP surgeries across Dwyfor Meirionnydd tell me that national insurance hikes coming in just a few weeks will stop them hiring new staff. The Secretary of State’s Government say they are cutting welfare to get people into jobs. What jobs?

• 12 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-third sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  The situation exists already in Wales. For example, people are prepared to travel in order to facilitate Welsh-medium coroner inquests. There are local authorities such as my own, Gwynedd, that have a requirement that all social workers be able to work in the medium of Welsh. The requirement will already be there, but this is a process of acknowledging those psychiatrists who are able to meet it. It is critical for the Bill, if we are to put the person and their needs first. I urge the Minister to consider the amendment. We are already familiar with this matter in relation to digital technology and the operations that we already need to put in place to allow people to use their language in Wales. The amendment recognises the dire situation. It recognises the absolute urgency of people who are at the most stressful time in their life being able to use the language that they prefer.

• 12 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-third sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I recall being on the Domestic Abuse Bill Committee. We heard time and again from public sector representatives that bringing in changes such as a domestic abuse register would bring extra work and be difficult. It is their job to flag up those points, but it is our job to assess what is the right thing to do in legislation.

• 12 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-third sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I wonder whether the Minister appreciates that when it comes to Welsh speakers using their language in the face of the majority language, English, with its status, what we are doing here is putting another barrier in their way: “I am making a nuisance of myself; I have to ask a favour and get interpreters.” That is not what we should be doing with this legislation. We should be putting those people first and making sure that they can express themselves at this most emotional time as effectively as possible. Interpreters should not be in the room with the assisted dying panels. That is fundamentally against the nature of the Bill.

• 12 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-third sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Surely many of the constitutional issues that we are discussing should be decided by the Senedd and the Welsh Government. It is a matter of urgency now that we discuss the “appropriate authority”, which is a term used in other legislation. I believe that in the Crime and Policing Bill, “appropriate authority” is used in relation to England and Scotland. We need to have clarity on these decisions as we move ahead.

• 11 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty First sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I rise to speak to my amendment (a) to new schedule 2. The assisted dying review panel comprises a legal member and the chair, a psychiatrist member and a social worker member. I welcome this third tier of safeguarding and its range of specialities, as laid out in new clause 21. My amendment (a) would amend paragraph 4, which concerns membership of panels, by inserting a new paragraph 4(3): “Each member of a panel must have fluent proficiency in the Welsh language if services or functions in the Act are to be provided to an individual in Welsh.” I emphasise the “if”, because it is in certain circumstances. I have previously touched on the requirements of the Welsh Language Act 1993 and the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011. It appears that the panel can be defined as a legal proceeding and will therefore be required to follow the pre-devolution 1993 Act. Let us consider whether that is sufficient for the level of safeguarding that all Committee members want to provide. Section 22(1) of the Welsh Language Act 1993 states: “In any legal proceedings in Wales the Welsh language may be spoken by any party, witness or other person who desires to use it, subject in the case of proceedings in a court other than a magistrates’ court to such prior notice as may be required by rules of court; and any necessary provision for interpretation shall be made accordingly.” I quote that as the nearest comparator. That means that the 1993 Act, in the situation we are discussing, enables people to speak Welsh and for interpreters to be provided as necessary. That gives people the right to speak Welsh, but it does not give them the right to be heard in Welsh in their own voice. If the legal personnel do not speak Welsh, their decisions will be based on the interpreted communication. The key question is whether we are content to accept the use of interpreters as intermediaries between the individual and the assisted dying panel. Dr Sarah Davies, a consultant respiratory physician from Colwyn Bay, has written, with 78 other clinicians from Wales as co-signatories, to parliamentarians about their concerns. She states: “In practice use of interpreters does not provide full communication of appropriate knowledge from clinician to patients. This is because interpreters are often not experienced and confident enough to discuss such complex and legal issues as assisted dying. Even the best possible practice by interpreters cannot match communicating in the person’s own preferred language. Every person whose preferred or primary language is Welsh and who communicates as a family or socially in Welsh should have access to important health information in Welsh. Any necessary assessment of capacity for purposes of consideration of assisted dying, and any assessment of coercion, must be in person and in Welsh if that is the person’s preferred language.” Dr Davies further states that it is not possible to confidently assess the decision-making capacity of a Welsh speaker in their second language. Superficial conversations in English often fail to demonstrate that a Welsh speaker with significant health problems is confused or does not have a good understanding of their own health condition and treatment options. The presence of confusion or lack of information may become apparent only during detailed conversations with a Welsh-speaking healthcare professional. It can be extremely challenging to detect the presence of coercion, and the nuances of family dynamics will not be apparent to a non-Welsh-speaking professional when the language spoken in the family is Welsh, so it will not be possible to make any assessment of the presence or absence of coercion. That is what Dr Davies says. The office of the Welsh Language Commissioner believes that there must be provision in the Bill to ensure that a person’s choice of language is considered, recorded and matched with further provisions, including a Welsh-speaking specialist panel. The commissioner’s office agreed that such an amendment relating to the specialist panel is very important. It stressed that a Welsh-speaking panel will be able to provide the same service in English to individuals who are not receiving assistance through Welsh, so the requirement in amendment (a) should not, in and of itself, necessarily mean recruiting more individuals or more panels. None the less, I feel that I must allay fears that it would require every member of every panel in Wales to be able to speak Welsh. It does not. That is not the intention of the amendment, nor is it in its wording. Fluent proficiency is required of all panel members only when the panel is making a decision in relation to a person whose preferred language is Welsh. So far, the response I have received from Ministers is that this private Member’s Bill does not require specific requirements on Welsh language rights in it and that these rights are already enshrined in law. The hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham and I have written to the Minister as regards discussing how the legislation should operate in relation to Wales and devolution—he had previously committed to a meeting—but we have yet to receive a response. I have withdrawn previous amendments in anticipation of that very meeting, but in this instance—as the provision of interpreters to communicate between the individual and the people charged with being the final guardians of safeguarding is wrong—I will push the amendment to a vote, because I do not believe that the issue is covered in legislation as things stand.

• 6 Mar 2025 · International Women’s Day · Hansard source

  More

  I am honoured to speak in this debate in advance of International Women’s Day on Saturday 8 March, which I will be celebrating with the all-women steam train crew at Rheilffordd Talyllyn railway in Tywyn. International Women’s Day remains as relevant now as ever. We, and the generations of women who have come before us, have achieved so much since the first International Women’s Day in 1911, but we still have a long way to go. When we talk about a gender-equal society, let us be clear about where we mean: in the home, in public spaces, in the workplace. Here in Westminster, we celebrate that 40% of this Parliament are now women. Indeed, we were taking a photograph just yesterday morning to that effect. In the Senedd, the cross-party women’s caucus has been re-established —a bold show of force between women across the political divide. Those are positive steps towards a gender balance but not necessarily towards gender equality, including equally safe workplaces, which I will speak about now. Members will know that a 2023 TUC poll found that three in five women have experienced sexual harassment, bullying or verbal abuse in the workplace. Reports of sexual assault, rape, stalking and coercive control from colleagues make up around 50% of calls made to the Rights of Women sexual harassment at work advice line, but as it stands, protections are limited. The Worker Protection (Amendment of Equality Act 2010) Act 2023 created a preventive duty for employers to take reasonable steps to prevent sexual harassment in the workplace, but an automatic investigation into a breach of that duty only takes place after an individual successfully brings a claim of sexual harassment, and many other forms of gender-based violence in the workplace are excluded. Meanwhile, the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, which is so familiar to employers, places a duty on employers to ensure the health, safety and welfare of employees at work. Why not use the toughest mechanism we have in the workplace to tackle workplace gender-based harassment and violence too? That is exactly what my Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 (Amendment) Bill, developed with the brilliant Suzy Lamplugh Trust and Rights of Women seeks to do, alongside new clauses 39 and 40 to the Employment Rights Bill, which would have the same effect. I hope that hon. Members will consider supporting those new clauses. My Bill would introduce clear, actionable duties for employers to protect workers from violence and harassment, including risk assessments, policy development and the provision of recognition and prevention training to all employees. Those boring-sounding things would make a difference in the workplace and to people’s lives. The Bill would mandate the Health and Safety Executive, which does not currently consider gender-based violence a workplace hazard and is not viewed as the primary authority for bullying, harassment or domestic abuse in the workplace, to develop and publish an enforceable health and safety framework on violence and harassment in the workplace and to issue guidance for employers. Leveraging health and safety legal frameworks that are already in place would require employers to actively work towards eliminating gender-based violence, while establishing a systematic and publicly enforceable approach to the prevention of, and safeguarding from, the spectrum of gender-based violence in the workplace. If these are the differences we wish to make—differences to women’s lives in the workplace—let us use all the powers we have at our disposal and make them work for women more effectively than they presently do. Let’s use all our powers. I hope everyone enjoys International Women’s Day on Saturday.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Before the Minister sits down, will he commit to engaging with me on this issue to identify the specific needs in the spirit of what I have bought forward?

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Amendment proposed : 359, in clause 5, page 3, line 18, at end insert— “(ba) who has conducted the preliminary discussion in accordance with section 4,”— (Danny Kruger.) This amendment requires that the coordinating doctor has conducted a preliminary discussion prior to witnessing the signing of the first declaration. Question put, That the amendment be made.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  That is exactly why the amendment includes a reference to “all reasonable steps”. It is with that in mind. This is reflected in other legislation where similar concerns have been expressed.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I beg to move amendment 144, in clause 5, page 3, line 14, leave out “Secretary of State” and insert “appropriate authority”. This amendment has the effect of allowing the Welsh Ministers to make regulations under Clause 5(3)(a) (training, qualifications and experience of coordinating doctors). A linked amendment to Clause 40 defines appropriate authority to mean the Secretary of State in relation to England and the Welsh Ministers in relation to Wales.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I have a simple question: in relation to the Sewel convention, if not now, when? We should have clarity on these points. I hope the Minister will forgive me if this is slightly longer than an intervention, but he gives me no option in the here and now but to withdraw the amendments, because I will not push them to a vote if it is likely to be lost. However, these are serious questions. How does this respect the Sewel convention? As a Back-Bench MP, I am not in a position to answer that, and I would have expected the Government to provide clarity on these points earlier than Committee stage. I assure the Minister that I will push this issue on Report if we do not have a satisfactory resolution on the Sewel convention.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  What the Minister is referring to is the appropriate authorities, because areas related to training and regulation of registered practitioners in Wales are devolved to the Welsh Government. I will be touching on that later, but I would beg him to approach the amendment in that spirit.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I am grateful for the hon. Lady’s intervention. Amendments 161 to 165 relate to clauses 35, 37 and 38. Amendments 161 to 163 would provide for the Welsh Government to review the operation of the legislation in Wales, which is vital to understand the specifics of the Welsh context and to learn and adapt as appropriate. To not allow Welsh Ministers that power would be to dismiss the particularities of health policy in Wales, as well as the additional implications of contextual differences. I strongly believe that we require an impact assessment to understand those differences properly within the context of health being devolved to Wales, alongside significant population differences in relation to demographics, age and sickness.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I am very glad that amendment 427 has now been unstarred for today, because it develops on what I initiated yesterday with amendment 413, when we were discussing identifying the preferred language of the individual and whether that is Welsh or English. Of course, if we have identified the preferred language of an individual, we would then take every step to make sure that we satisfy them and that we provide services in their preferred language. The amendment also recognises, when we are talking about specific individuals, possibly in a specific location, whether providing that is possible or not. I have tried to reflect that in using the terminology “all reasonable steps” to ensure that the practitioner has “fluent proficiency” in Welsh if that is the preferred language of the individual with whom they are conducting the initial conversation. Bear in mind, of course, that practitioners who can hold a conversation with fluent proficiency in Welsh will also be able to hold a conversation with fluent proficiency in English. The “all reasonable steps” phraseology comes from legislation already extant in Wales in relation to educational tribunals, which again recognise that it may not be possible to find an individual with sufficient proficiency. We are trying to find a balance here between the pressure of time and being able to move ahead without having a bureaucratic thicket while also acknowledging that if we do recognise an individual’s preferred language, that we do take “all reasonable steps”. As with amendment 413, amendment 427 is an amendment that I tabled having met an officer from the Welsh Language Commissioner’s office last week. It would establish a pathway for people for whom Welsh is their preferred language. Reflecting the comments from the Minister and the Bill’s promoter, the hon. Member for Spen Valley yesterday, I need to know—as do the Committee and the Senedd—whether this needs to be on the face of the Bill or whether it could be elsewhere. I do not intend to push amendment 427 to a vote today, but we very much need clarity on this issue. I suspect that this may not be so easy to clarify as yesterday’s point. We are talking about the rights of individuals in one of the most difficult, emotional, intimate discussions of their lives. We need to reflect that those individuals have a clear right to use the language which they have a choice in law to use. We must make sure that we get everything correct in this Bill. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  The evidence for a commencement date would be associated with an impact assessment in Wales. That is why it is so important that Welsh Ministers have the power to get the information they need and to implement any changes that come forward.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Diolch, Gadeirydd. As Professor Emyr Lewis of Aberystwyth University told this Committee in oral evidence, because this Bill is a private Member’s Bill it has not gone through the usual process of engagement with devolved Governments. I recognise that there will be amendments and changes and amendments to amendments, but I can speak to the principle here and we will have to adapt as we move ahead, as we are learning to do in this Committee. The Wales Act 2017 formally acknowledged the Sewel convention by amending section 107 of the Government of Wales Act 2006 with a declaration stating—this is important—that “it is recognised that the Parliament of the United Kingdom will not normally legislate with regard to devolved matters without the consent of the Senedd.” It is in that spirit that work needs to be done to ensure that the devolved legislature in Wales and the complexities of legislating across reserved and devolved matters are fully considered and represented in the Bill. That is what these 28 amendments seek to do. The use of the term “appropriate authority” does two things. First, in the here and now, it recognises the complexity of which competency lies where and with which Minister or Secretary of State. Secondly, it future-proofs the legislation, which we know is important. If and when there are any changes to devolved powers and competencies, the appropriate authority can move with time with the specifics of who is responsible for what. Amendment 169 would amend clause 40 to include a definition of “appropriate authority”, the term that is used in my other amendments. It would mean the Secretary of State in relation to England and the Welsh Ministers in relation to Wales, where those powers are devolved rather than reserved. The amendment would provide for my other amendments, which would modify each relevant mention of powers provided to the Secretary of State in the Bill, to supply Welsh Ministers with equivalent powers in Wales. Amendment 144 would amend clause 5 to allow Welsh Ministers the same powers as the Secretary of State in England to specify the training, qualifications and experience of the medical practitioner representing the co-ordinating doctor, because that matter is devolved to Wales. Amendment 145, similarly, would require Welsh Ministers to consult persons they consider appropriate before making the relevant regulations in Wales. Amendment 146 would amend clause 6 to allow Welsh Government Ministers equivalent powers to make provision around proof of identity. Amendment 147 would similarly amend clause 8 in relation to the training, qualifications and experience of the independent doctor; we are talking, of course, about the co-ordinating doctor. And so on, and so on. I assume that hon. Members now understand the purpose of my various amendments. I am more than willing to explain them further if necessary, but otherwise I will skip ahead. Amendments 155 and 156 would modify clause 30 so that the Welsh Government are provided with a power to issue a code of practice over arrangements in relation to this legislation in Wales. That might be a useful route into further discussions on the specifications of the codes of practice; it might also be significant in discussions with the hon. Member for Spen Valley and the Government about how to recognise legislative differences in safeguarding and the Welsh language. Amendments 157 and 158 are also important. They would provide Welsh Ministers with the power to make regulations under clause 32 to ensure that assistance is available through the health service in Wales. That is the responsibility of Welsh Ministers. As Committee members know, Senedd Cymru voted against a motion to support an assisted dying law by 26 to 19, with nine abstaining. There are a number of issues of which we need to be aware when bringing an England and Wales law into Wales. To ignore them would be irresponsible; we do so at our peril, frankly, especially given that clauses 33 and 34 will place explicit obligations on Welsh Ministers and the chief medical officer for Wales. I put it on the record that I am disappointed that the Committee was not able to question the chief medical officer for Wales. I understand that he was invited. As there are matters in the Bill that we do not deal with every day in this place, that would have been useful. The Bill is unprecedented, certainly for a private Member’s Bill, in respect of the support, information and advice that the Committee needs, and that would have been an obvious opportunity for us to receive advice. I understand that the chief medical officer has advised on other pieces of legislation, including vaping, although that was Government legislation.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Nineteeth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  For the record, amendment 428 is separate from amendment 427, which I discussed this morning. It is part of a progression, however, from amendment 413 to clause 4, which would have recognised a “preferred language of Welsh or English”, to amendment 427 to clause 5, which would have meant that “all reasonable steps” were taken to ensure that the co-ordinating doctor would have “fluent proficiency” in Welsh and English. Amendment 428 would apply the same concept to clause 8 to ensure that “all reasonable steps” are taken for the independent doctor to have “fluent proficiency” in Welsh. As other colleagues and I are due to have further conversations with the Minister and the promoter of the Bill, I will not be moving this amendment, but it is important that the process and the rationale behind it are on the record.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Engagements · Hansard source

  More

  By cosying up to Putin, Trump is making Europe less safe. We all recognise the need for Europe to adapt. Germany is changing its fiscal rules to boost investment in defence and infrastructure and creating a €500 billion fund to strengthen its future. Will the Prime Minister please consider a similar approach, focusing on strategic investment rather than imposing further hardship on the poorest through cuts to welfare and international aid?

• 4 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Seventeenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I rise to speak to amendment 413, which would require a medical practitioner in Wales who conducts a preliminary discussion under subsection (4) to discuss with the person their preferred language of Welsh or English. Amendments 414, 415, 416 and 417, tabled by the hon. Member for Ipswich, relate to adjustments for language and literacy barriers. I will speak to those amendments, but it is not my intention to divide the Committee on them. Although I am supportive of the drive behind the amendments from the hon. Member for Ipswich, they refer to a situation very different from that of Welsh and English, because the use of Welsh and English has particular statutory implications. This is the first time I have risen to speak about how we need to tease out the Bill’s implications in the context of reserved and devolved powers, where justice and criminal law are reserved, while health and social care are devolved. Amendment 413 concerns the need, in my belief, to place in the Bill the requirement to determine whether a person wishes to use either Welsh or English in their initial discussions with registered medical practitioners. I firmly believe that this needs to be written into the legislation. Later amendments I have tabled to clauses 5 and 8, and new clause 18 and new schedule 2, also relate to the use of Welsh.

• 4 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Seventeenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  While I agree with the hon. Member in principle, I am operating within the law in terms of Welsh and English, because there are legal considerations with those two languages in particular. In the matter we are discussing, the ability for the person to communicate as directly as possible is of the greatest importance. I wonder whether the Minister will respond by saying that the codes of practice in clause 30 will be sufficient, but I emphasise that I took advice from the Welsh Language Commissioner’s office, and it was the Welsh Language Commissioner’s officer who advised that I table the amendments. We are operating in unique circumstances with this being a private Member’s Bill, and we need to have clarity on what is required in relation to how the legislation operates between England and Wales.

• 4 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Seventeenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  We have raised already in the Committee the need for an impact assessment. I have also raised with the Minister the need for an impact assessment in Wales. The fact that we are having this conversation shows that there is an element of uncertainty about exactly whether it is necessary for this provision to be included in the Bill. I am concerned that it could be in a code of practice; I share the concern expressed by the hon. Member for Bradford West that we do not know how such codes of practice will operate, or whether we will have any say over how they operate. However, as the Minister has come to this in a spirit of co-operation, I hope that we will find some clarity. If it appears that it is better for Welsh language speakers that such a provision be set out in the Bill, I hope that he will agree in that respect.

• 4 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Seventeenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I will not press amendment 413, because I anticipate further conversations on these matters. Amendment 414 agreed to. Amendment proposed : 285, in clause 4, page 2, line 28, leave out paragraphs (a) to (c) and insert— “(a) the person’s diagnosis and prognosis, in consultation with a specialist in the relevant illness, disease or medical condition, (b) any treatment available and the likely effect of it, in consultation with a specialist in the provision of such treatment, (c) any palliative, hospice or other care, including symptom management and psychological support, in consultation with a specialist in palliative care.” —(Naz Shah.) This amendment ensures that a specialist carries out the assessment of the patient, the treatment options available and the palliative care options available, since these may not be known to a doctor coordinating an assisted death. Question put, That the amendment be made.