Liz Saville Roberts MP: speeches

Speeches

• 25 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-ninth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. We have received additional evidence from the Welsh Language Commissioner that bears on this new clause quite considerably. The comments result from our discussions of amendments 413, 427 and 428, and amendment (a) to new schedule 2, and it is worth having an interpretation of them on record. The safeguarding process is a matter of Welsh language legal rights and a clear communicative necessity. The Welsh Language Commissioner says that “it is essential that Welsh speakers can discuss the decision to end their own life through the medium of Welsh if they so wish.” The key word here is “discuss”. We are very used in Wales to the convention of documentation and information being available in bilingual forms., However, in previous amendments on the Welsh language, I have endeavoured to make sure that those involved in the process are—to the degree that all reasonable steps have been taken—able to converse with fluent proficiency in the preferred language of the person who comes before them seeking their support and their judgment in relation to capacity and coercion. Therefore, all reasonable steps should be taken to ensure that the key human aspect of this discussion—the conversations between the person and the co-ordinating doctor, the independent doctor and the panel—should be conducted in Welsh, where that is the preferred language. Welsh speakers should not have to request to be able to use Welsh every time the process moves from one person to another; that should be recognised at the beginning of the process. Again, all reasonable steps should be taken to ensure that people are able to communicate in the language with which they are most naturally comfortable—the language that comes to them when they express perhaps their deepest fears and greatest emotions. On occasion, it will be difficult to find people in a reasonable timespan, and we will need to train people in certain roles, but that is where the “all reasonable steps” requirement comes in. Forgive me, it is late, but it is important for me to take a little time, because the commissioner notes that there has already been some discussion in Committee about whether provisions are necessary in the Bill. The commissioner goes on to say: “The Welsh Language Standards (No.7) Regulations 2018 are the relevant standards which apply to health boards and NHS trusts in Wales. Although the standards place duties to provide a range of services through the medium of Welsh (such as correspondence, case conferences, documents and forms), they do not go as far as to place duties on health boards to ensure that Welsh speakers can receive clinical services through the medium of Welsh.” That is why we need my new clause in the Bill. Legislation as it stands in relation to Wales is not sufficient even to give us the “reasonable steps” provision. The commissioner says that although in Wales “Welsh Language standards apply to NHS primary care services that are contracted by the health boards, Welsh language standards currently don’t apply to independent providers. However, a limited number of Welsh language duties have been placed on independent primary care providers”— that is GPs, of course. The commissioner continues: “As is the case with respect to the Welsh language standards, these duties do not go as far as ensuring that Welsh speakers can receive clinical primary care services through the medium of Welsh.” That again is why “all reasonable steps” is about doing the best we can to ensure that people are able to communicate in the language that comes most naturally to them. The commissioner also says: “It is important to note that the standards set out duties relating to health services in general, while the Bill in question relates to a much more specific and specialised service. It also relates to a highly sensitive issue where being able to provide in an individual’s first language is essential. The key point here is that stronger provisions could be made in an area such as assisted dying compared to that which would be practically possible in standards relating to health services more generally. As such, if there is an opportunity to make specific provisions in legislation regarding ensuring clinical services through the medium of Welsh then it should be done.” I know that there are two concerns, and I have already mentioned the phrase “all reasonable steps”. I want us to have a decision in this place, here and now, and to hear back from the promoter and Ministers that there is an appreciation that we need something in the Bill. The Welsh Language Act 1993, as it applies to the judiciary, gives the individual only the right to speak Welsh; it does not give them the right to discuss or to be understood. Through the written evidence I have quoted, I hope I have been able to show that the Welsh language standards in Wales do not go as far as we need them to in this legislation. The other point—again, this is part of our finding our way with amendments—is that my understanding is that the new clause would apply to the geographic area of Wales only; it would not apply in England, as is normal with other legislation in this respect. I want to hear the response from the promoter and Ministers before I decide whether to press my new clause to a vote. However, I do feel, on this final day, that we need to have something on record that says we respect the use of the Welsh language and we will do our best to ensure that the provisions act effectively in that respect.

• 25 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-ninth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  The Committee should be aware that the Isle of Man has today passed an assisted dying Act, and we already have divergence between the different jurisdictions of the United Kingdom.

• 24 Mar 2025 · European Union: UK Membership · Hansard source

  More

  Indeed. Ensuring that there is a workforce for leisure and tourism is proving more and more challenging for a number of reasons, including the shortage of workers who previously came from the EU. To return to Erasmus+, the Welsh Government made the decision to launch their own scheme in 2021. That was welcome, but the First Minister at the time, Mark Drakeford, said in February last year that “if we had a choice we would much rather we were part of an established scheme”, like Erasmus. Disappointingly, the UK Government announced last summer that they have no plans to rejoin the Erasmus scheme, but I ask the Government to reconsider and look at recent successes in making closer ties with our neighbours. Calls for a youth mobility scheme have also been scorned by the UK Government. What is it about enriching young people’s lives that frightens this Government so much? Just this month, the UK marked an important milestone with Horizon Europe that indicates an alternative route. Since becoming an associated country in 2024, after three years of non-membership, the UK has boasted a strong performance in recent funding rounds. In particular, the UK hosted 18 successful projects under the European Research Council’s synergy grants, the second highest number among participating countries. Ahead of the spring statement, when the Chancellor will undoubtedly be looking for opportunities to drive growth amid a dismal economic outlook, I urge the Government to find inspiration in our progress with Horizon and to pursue closer ties in further areas. My party believes that returning to the single market and the customs union as soon as possible would be a meaningful step towards remedying the economic damage suffered by households and businesses alike. Recent figures by the Economic Cost of Brexit Project show that the average person in the UK is now £2,000 worse off as a result of leaving the European Union, worsening the effects of the ongoing cost of living crisis. Five years on from our exit from the EU, the world is a more uncertain, more dangerous and less predictable place. From my home in Morfa Nefyn in north-west Wales, the closest capital city is Dublin. Our nearest neighbours for everyone, everywhere in the United Kingdom, are in the EU. The benefits of closer ties with our neighbours and our allies are plain to see, and I urge the Government to take heart from recent successes such as Horizon Europe and to pursue the same bold approach on youth mobility, on Erasmus, and on the customs union and single market.

• 24 Mar 2025 · European Union: UK Membership · Hansard source

  More

  The January poll by YouGov that I quoted earlier notes that everybody sees that tourism has been hit—by fewer people from the UK going to the EU as tourists and fewer people from the EU coming to the UK. In areas such as my hon. Friend’s in Ceredigion and mine in Gwynedd, tourism provides the chief employment in our economy, along with the universities.

• 24 Mar 2025 · European Union: UK Membership · Hansard source

  More

  I am sure the hon. Gentleman will join me in expressing dismay at the fact that, for the bivalve fishing industry, the waters of Wales were no longer acceptable, and that industry died with Brexit.

• 24 Mar 2025 · European Union: UK Membership · Hansard source

  More

  Will the Minister give way?

• 24 Mar 2025 · European Union: UK Membership · Hansard source

  More

  The end of January marked five years since the UK left the EU. Although a majority of people in the UK, and indeed in Wales, voted to leave the EU at that time, the majority do not think it was a good idea any more. Polling shows that 55% of Britons now say that it was wrong for the UK to leave the EU, with just 11% seeing Brexit as more of a success than a failure. Let us also not forget that young people voted decisively to remain.

• 24 Mar 2025 · European Union: UK Membership · Hansard source

  More

  I absolutely agree. It is a priority for us as parliamentarians and for the Government to ensure that we do everything we can to widen the horizons for our young people and to give them the best opportunities. According to polling data from YouGov, three quarters of 18 to 24-year-olds voted to stay in the European Union in 2016. There was a myth peddled at the time that they did not turn out to vote, but that is wrong: around 70% of registered young voters went to the polling booth. Nine years later, the next generation remains decisively opposed to Brexit, with 75% saying it was a mistake. As we look to the future, we must think seriously about the effect of the decision on young people who entered the workforce under its cloud, although many of them would not have been able to vote in 2016. What has “getting Brexit done” meant for them? The UK no longer allows young people to take part in the Horizon Europe or Erasmus+ programmes, which is a huge loss to students the length and breadth of the UK. Those vital exchanges provided opportunities for young people to live and study in other countries, and their many benefits included improved language skills, cultural immersion and personal growth, leaving the sort of memories that stayed with somebody for ever.

• 19 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-sixth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  We should acknowledge the reasons that people go into residential and nursing care homes. They go into them because they need day-to-day help to live. Would the hon. Gentleman reconsider what he has just said? It seems to fundamentally discriminate between people who are able to live at home, have families or carers around them and can operate in that way and people who need to go into residential, and particularly nursing, homes.

• 19 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-sixth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  They might not have one.

• 18 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-fourth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  The hon. Gentleman mentions subsection (7). Subsection (8) states quite clearly that it “does not authorise the coordinating doctor to administer an approved substance to another person with the intention of causing that person’s death.” I think the passive and active roles are quite clear between the two subsections.

• 12 Mar 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Impact on Employment · Hansard source

  More

  If the Government agreed with the Secretary of State’s counterpart in Cardiff, we would have the money from the Crown Estate as well. Back in 2015, the Secretary of State and I walked through the same Lobby to vote against what she then described as despicable Tory welfare cuts, and she dared the break the Labour Whip to do so. Given the evidence of her strong convictions on the issue, how can she justify remaining in a Cabinet that is intent on implementing Tory-style welfare cuts?

• 12 Mar 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Impact on Employment · Hansard source

  More

  Diolch yn fawr iawn, Lefarydd. I am sure the House will join me in remembering the Llandow air disaster in which 80 people lost their lives 75 years ago. Elaine’s Hair and Beauty Salon in Llanrug, Pitian Patian Nursery in Llanwnda and care homes and GP surgeries across Dwyfor Meirionnydd tell me that national insurance hikes coming in just a few weeks will stop them hiring new staff. The Secretary of State’s Government say they are cutting welfare to get people into jobs. What jobs?

• 12 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-third sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  The situation exists already in Wales. For example, people are prepared to travel in order to facilitate Welsh-medium coroner inquests. There are local authorities such as my own, Gwynedd, that have a requirement that all social workers be able to work in the medium of Welsh. The requirement will already be there, but this is a process of acknowledging those psychiatrists who are able to meet it. It is critical for the Bill, if we are to put the person and their needs first. I urge the Minister to consider the amendment. We are already familiar with this matter in relation to digital technology and the operations that we already need to put in place to allow people to use their language in Wales. The amendment recognises the dire situation. It recognises the absolute urgency of people who are at the most stressful time in their life being able to use the language that they prefer.

• 12 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-third sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I recall being on the Domestic Abuse Bill Committee. We heard time and again from public sector representatives that bringing in changes such as a domestic abuse register would bring extra work and be difficult. It is their job to flag up those points, but it is our job to assess what is the right thing to do in legislation.

• 12 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-third sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I wonder whether the Minister appreciates that when it comes to Welsh speakers using their language in the face of the majority language, English, with its status, what we are doing here is putting another barrier in their way: “I am making a nuisance of myself; I have to ask a favour and get interpreters.” That is not what we should be doing with this legislation. We should be putting those people first and making sure that they can express themselves at this most emotional time as effectively as possible. Interpreters should not be in the room with the assisted dying panels. That is fundamentally against the nature of the Bill.

• 12 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-third sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Surely many of the constitutional issues that we are discussing should be decided by the Senedd and the Welsh Government. It is a matter of urgency now that we discuss the “appropriate authority”, which is a term used in other legislation. I believe that in the Crime and Policing Bill, “appropriate authority” is used in relation to England and Scotland. We need to have clarity on these decisions as we move ahead.

• 11 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty First sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I rise to speak to my amendment (a) to new schedule 2. The assisted dying review panel comprises a legal member and the chair, a psychiatrist member and a social worker member. I welcome this third tier of safeguarding and its range of specialities, as laid out in new clause 21. My amendment (a) would amend paragraph 4, which concerns membership of panels, by inserting a new paragraph 4(3): “Each member of a panel must have fluent proficiency in the Welsh language if services or functions in the Act are to be provided to an individual in Welsh.” I emphasise the “if”, because it is in certain circumstances. I have previously touched on the requirements of the Welsh Language Act 1993 and the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011. It appears that the panel can be defined as a legal proceeding and will therefore be required to follow the pre-devolution 1993 Act. Let us consider whether that is sufficient for the level of safeguarding that all Committee members want to provide. Section 22(1) of the Welsh Language Act 1993 states: “In any legal proceedings in Wales the Welsh language may be spoken by any party, witness or other person who desires to use it, subject in the case of proceedings in a court other than a magistrates’ court to such prior notice as may be required by rules of court; and any necessary provision for interpretation shall be made accordingly.” I quote that as the nearest comparator. That means that the 1993 Act, in the situation we are discussing, enables people to speak Welsh and for interpreters to be provided as necessary. That gives people the right to speak Welsh, but it does not give them the right to be heard in Welsh in their own voice. If the legal personnel do not speak Welsh, their decisions will be based on the interpreted communication. The key question is whether we are content to accept the use of interpreters as intermediaries between the individual and the assisted dying panel. Dr Sarah Davies, a consultant respiratory physician from Colwyn Bay, has written, with 78 other clinicians from Wales as co-signatories, to parliamentarians about their concerns. She states: “In practice use of interpreters does not provide full communication of appropriate knowledge from clinician to patients. This is because interpreters are often not experienced and confident enough to discuss such complex and legal issues as assisted dying. Even the best possible practice by interpreters cannot match communicating in the person’s own preferred language. Every person whose preferred or primary language is Welsh and who communicates as a family or socially in Welsh should have access to important health information in Welsh. Any necessary assessment of capacity for purposes of consideration of assisted dying, and any assessment of coercion, must be in person and in Welsh if that is the person’s preferred language.” Dr Davies further states that it is not possible to confidently assess the decision-making capacity of a Welsh speaker in their second language. Superficial conversations in English often fail to demonstrate that a Welsh speaker with significant health problems is confused or does not have a good understanding of their own health condition and treatment options. The presence of confusion or lack of information may become apparent only during detailed conversations with a Welsh-speaking healthcare professional. It can be extremely challenging to detect the presence of coercion, and the nuances of family dynamics will not be apparent to a non-Welsh-speaking professional when the language spoken in the family is Welsh, so it will not be possible to make any assessment of the presence or absence of coercion. That is what Dr Davies says. The office of the Welsh Language Commissioner believes that there must be provision in the Bill to ensure that a person’s choice of language is considered, recorded and matched with further provisions, including a Welsh-speaking specialist panel. The commissioner’s office agreed that such an amendment relating to the specialist panel is very important. It stressed that a Welsh-speaking panel will be able to provide the same service in English to individuals who are not receiving assistance through Welsh, so the requirement in amendment (a) should not, in and of itself, necessarily mean recruiting more individuals or more panels. None the less, I feel that I must allay fears that it would require every member of every panel in Wales to be able to speak Welsh. It does not. That is not the intention of the amendment, nor is it in its wording. Fluent proficiency is required of all panel members only when the panel is making a decision in relation to a person whose preferred language is Welsh. So far, the response I have received from Ministers is that this private Member’s Bill does not require specific requirements on Welsh language rights in it and that these rights are already enshrined in law. The hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham and I have written to the Minister as regards discussing how the legislation should operate in relation to Wales and devolution—he had previously committed to a meeting—but we have yet to receive a response. I have withdrawn previous amendments in anticipation of that very meeting, but in this instance—as the provision of interpreters to communicate between the individual and the people charged with being the final guardians of safeguarding is wrong—I will push the amendment to a vote, because I do not believe that the issue is covered in legislation as things stand.

• 6 Mar 2025 · International Women’s Day · Hansard source

  More

  I am honoured to speak in this debate in advance of International Women’s Day on Saturday 8 March, which I will be celebrating with the all-women steam train crew at Rheilffordd Talyllyn railway in Tywyn. International Women’s Day remains as relevant now as ever. We, and the generations of women who have come before us, have achieved so much since the first International Women’s Day in 1911, but we still have a long way to go. When we talk about a gender-equal society, let us be clear about where we mean: in the home, in public spaces, in the workplace. Here in Westminster, we celebrate that 40% of this Parliament are now women. Indeed, we were taking a photograph just yesterday morning to that effect. In the Senedd, the cross-party women’s caucus has been re-established —a bold show of force between women across the political divide. Those are positive steps towards a gender balance but not necessarily towards gender equality, including equally safe workplaces, which I will speak about now. Members will know that a 2023 TUC poll found that three in five women have experienced sexual harassment, bullying or verbal abuse in the workplace. Reports of sexual assault, rape, stalking and coercive control from colleagues make up around 50% of calls made to the Rights of Women sexual harassment at work advice line, but as it stands, protections are limited. The Worker Protection (Amendment of Equality Act 2010) Act 2023 created a preventive duty for employers to take reasonable steps to prevent sexual harassment in the workplace, but an automatic investigation into a breach of that duty only takes place after an individual successfully brings a claim of sexual harassment, and many other forms of gender-based violence in the workplace are excluded. Meanwhile, the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, which is so familiar to employers, places a duty on employers to ensure the health, safety and welfare of employees at work. Why not use the toughest mechanism we have in the workplace to tackle workplace gender-based harassment and violence too? That is exactly what my Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 (Amendment) Bill, developed with the brilliant Suzy Lamplugh Trust and Rights of Women seeks to do, alongside new clauses 39 and 40 to the Employment Rights Bill, which would have the same effect. I hope that hon. Members will consider supporting those new clauses. My Bill would introduce clear, actionable duties for employers to protect workers from violence and harassment, including risk assessments, policy development and the provision of recognition and prevention training to all employees. Those boring-sounding things would make a difference in the workplace and to people’s lives. The Bill would mandate the Health and Safety Executive, which does not currently consider gender-based violence a workplace hazard and is not viewed as the primary authority for bullying, harassment or domestic abuse in the workplace, to develop and publish an enforceable health and safety framework on violence and harassment in the workplace and to issue guidance for employers. Leveraging health and safety legal frameworks that are already in place would require employers to actively work towards eliminating gender-based violence, while establishing a systematic and publicly enforceable approach to the prevention of, and safeguarding from, the spectrum of gender-based violence in the workplace. If these are the differences we wish to make—differences to women’s lives in the workplace—let us use all the powers we have at our disposal and make them work for women more effectively than they presently do. Let’s use all our powers. I hope everyone enjoys International Women’s Day on Saturday.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  Before the Minister sits down, will he commit to engaging with me on this issue to identify the specific needs in the spirit of what I have bought forward?

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Amendment proposed : 359, in clause 5, page 3, line 18, at end insert— “(ba) who has conducted the preliminary discussion in accordance with section 4,”— (Danny Kruger.) This amendment requires that the coordinating doctor has conducted a preliminary discussion prior to witnessing the signing of the first declaration. Question put, That the amendment be made.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  That is exactly why the amendment includes a reference to “all reasonable steps”. It is with that in mind. This is reflected in other legislation where similar concerns have been expressed.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I beg to move amendment 144, in clause 5, page 3, line 14, leave out “Secretary of State” and insert “appropriate authority”. This amendment has the effect of allowing the Welsh Ministers to make regulations under Clause 5(3)(a) (training, qualifications and experience of coordinating doctors). A linked amendment to Clause 40 defines appropriate authority to mean the Secretary of State in relation to England and the Welsh Ministers in relation to Wales.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  I have a simple question: in relation to the Sewel convention, if not now, when? We should have clarity on these points. I hope the Minister will forgive me if this is slightly longer than an intervention, but he gives me no option in the here and now but to withdraw the amendments, because I will not push them to a vote if it is likely to be lost. However, these are serious questions. How does this respect the Sewel convention? As a Back-Bench MP, I am not in a position to answer that, and I would have expected the Government to provide clarity on these points earlier than Committee stage. I assure the Minister that I will push this issue on Report if we do not have a satisfactory resolution on the Sewel convention.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

  More

  What the Minister is referring to is the appropriate authorities, because areas related to training and regulation of registered practitioners in Wales are devolved to the Welsh Government. I will be touching on that later, but I would beg him to approach the amendment in that spirit.