Justin Madders MP: speeches

Speeches

• 1 Jul 2025 · Draft Subsidy Control (Subsidies and Schemes of Interest or Particular Interest) (Amendment) Regulations 2025 · Hansard source

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  I note the shadow Minister’s comments and his position on this. I will try to give him some reassurance. The reason no impact assessment has been prepared is that the regulations are below the de minimis threshold for an impact assessment. They are merely about the familiarisation that public bodies will need to undergo to assess whether the referral process would apply to a particular subsidy. His concern that the regulations will lead to no scrutiny of public subsidies rather misses the point. A wide range of these public bodies have their own scrutiny processes, and lots of the referrals are from local authorities, which have well-established scrutiny processes. There will also be a CMA report next year that sets out the detail of how the scheme has operated in its first three years. The shadow Minister is right to question the threshold. I am sure that he would expect me, as the Minister, to grill officials—on a hot day like this, grilling is appropriate—on whether the large increase is right. What I have gleaned from that is that the number of referrals to the CMA is significantly higher than was anticipated when the 2022 Act was brought in. Some of the subsidies that have been referred are not the sort that the CMA needs to be concerned about. For example, leisure centres and Arts Council England subsidies to the English National Opera are not matters that I consider to be of particular relevance to the CMA’s actions, and will certainly not distort international investment flows. A wide range of bodies responded to the consultation, including local authorities, employers, business organisations and the British Chambers of Commerce. The suggestions made have been considered. As the shadow Minister pointed out, a number of different suggestions were made about the threshold—some were as high as £100 million. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would be even more concerned if we had gone as high as that. We think we have struck the right balance to modernise and update the subsidy threshold. It goes without saying that construction costs have gone up year on year. This increase is not intended to be annual, so there is an element of future-proofing. As I said, the CMA will produce its monitoring report this year, which will give us all an opportunity to see how this has worked in practice. The shadow Minister made fair challenges. I hope that I have given him some reassurance that we considered this matter carefully before bringing forward the regulations. I commend them to the Committee. Question put and agreed to.

• 24 Jun 2025 · Draft Protection and Disclosure of Personal Information (Amendment) Regulations 2025 · Hansard source

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  I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Protection and Disclosure of Personal Information (Amendment) Regulations 2025. It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair today, Mrs Hobhouse. The regulations are part of a secondary legislation programme implementing the reforms of the Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Act 2023. Combating economic crime remains a priority for the Government. At the same time, it is crucial that we ensure that the UK lives up to its reputation as a country in which legitimate businesses can thrive. The reforms in the 2023 Act strike that balance. As the implementation of the 2023 Act continues at pace, I am pleased to present the Committee with these new regulations as part of the next wave of reforms. As a quid pro quo for running a limited liability company, those controlling them have to register their details publicly at Companies House. That provides transparency for members of the public, so they can find out who those people are. At the same time, it means that the owners and controllers of the company can be held to account for the company’s affairs. However, the Government are conscious that by having personal information on the public companies register, individuals can be subject to increased risk of harm, including the risk of fraud and identity theft, and other matters such as stalking. The regulations aim to ensure that the register does not become a tool for abuse, and to strike the right balance between transparency and privacy. Currently, it is possible for an individual to protect their residential address from the public register in certain limited cases. When I say protect, I mean that the register cannot display the addresses publicly. That does not mean that the address has gone away entirely; Companies House retains the address and can share it with those who have functions of a public nature, such as law enforcement, if required to do so. The new regulations deliver another instalment of the reforms to enhance the protection of personal information on the register. They build on regulations that came into force on 27 January this year. The previous regulations expanded the circumstances in which an individual can apply to protect their residential address from the public register. The regulations will expand that existing protection regime further still. They will allow individuals to apply to protect their business occupation, signature and date of birth. They will also make it possible to protect a residential address in even more cases than is already allowed. The only exceptions will be where it is not possible because the company names make it so, and in certain charge-related filings. That is because of the importance of those filings for due diligence purposes. The Government will keep those exceptions under review. We believe that the reforms align with the Government’s mission to kick-start economic growth. They will encourage enterprise and entrepreneurship, giving prospective directors greater confidence that their personal information can be protected if they decide to start a company or accept an appointment as a director. The regulations will also remove the requirement for certain community interests, company documents and statements of solvency to be signed. That means that those documents can be authenticated via printed name, bringing them in line with other company-related filings. By reducing the number of signatures on the public register, the measure will reduce misuse of the register for fraudulent purposes, including identity theft. In addition, the regulations will remove the requirement for directors of overseas companies to provide a business occupation. As the 2023 Act will remove the requirement for UK company directors to provide their business occupation, the regulations ensure consistency with the requirements for overseas company directors. Further, the regulations expand an existing protection mechanism for people with significant control. They can currently make an application to request that the registrar refrains from disclosing their usual residential address to a credit reference agency. The regulations allow a person with significant control over a company to make applications in more cases—for example, where they are at risk as a result of being a partner of a limited partnership. The regulations make other minor amendments to secondary legislation relating to people with significant control, which are applied to limited liability partnerships and eligible Scottish partnerships. The regulations apply the changes that they make to company law to the law governing LLPs and unregistered companies, such as companies formed by royal charter. This will ensure that the framework for other entities aligns with that of standard companies. I reiterate that the regulations strike the right balance between privacy and transparency. They mark a further step towards the successful implementation of the 2023 Act, and I therefore hope that the Committee will support them.

• 4 Jun 2025 · Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [Lords] · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend makes an important point. The Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government will be primarily responsible for enforcement at the local level, but the Bill also increases the powers of local trading standards to enforce measures. The Bill affects the whole of the UK. We have worked closely and constructively with devolved Governments on policy development through regular engagement and throughout the Bill’s passage at both ministerial and official level. I therefore thank the devolved Governments, Ministers and their teams for working so constructively with us. In Committee, we tabled an amendment that placed a statutory requirement on the Secretary of State to obtain the consent of the devolved Governments where regulations contain provisions within their devolved competence. We believe that provides for the most effective and appropriate role for the devolved Governments in a way that respects the individual devolution settlements. I am pleased to report that the Senedd passed a legislative consent motion for the Bill yesterday. I have also had constructive discussions with the Scottish Government and the Northern Ireland Executive, and both have recommended legislative consent to their respective legislatures. We will continue to work collaboratively with those bodies to develop product regulation that best supports businesses and consumers across the whole of the UK. I will provide a quick recap of some of the changes made to the Bill by the Government since it was introduced last year, in addition to the devolution amendment, because there has been some misconception about what the Bill does and does not do. We have added a statutory consultation mechanism to ensure that stakeholders can shape product and metrology regulations. We have extended the affirmative procedure to parts of the Bill to further boost parliamentary scrutiny; for the avoidance of doubt, they are detailed in clause 13(4). The affirmative procedure therefore now applies to: the creation of criminal offences; the first use of regulations covering online marketplaces; the first time duties are imposed on a new supply chain actor; regulations conferring powers of entry, search or inspection; regulations to disapply requirements in response to an emergency; regulations covering the sharing of information between persons; regulations on cost recovery, which I have already referred to in my response to the intervention from my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central; regulations amending or repealing the Gun Barrel Proof Acts; regulations on consequential amendments to primary legislation; and regulations amending the definition of online marketplaces. As Members will be aware from the responses on Report, there were a number of reasons that we want flexibility with regard to online marketplaces, which we believe will develop in ways that we cannot predict. I can confirm that aviation safety products are exempted from the Bill as they are covered in existing legislation. The Government have published a code of conduct that sets out the statutory and non-statutory guardrails to ensure that regulation made under this legislation is proportionate and well designed. It is also worth addressing the criticism that this is a skeletal Bill and pointing out that the proportion of skeletal Bills tripled in 2016-2023 compared with 1991-2015. Indeed, in the former period, some 19 separate Bills were described as skeletal by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee.

• 15 May 2025 · Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [Lords] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Ms Vaz. The Government have been clear in our intention to maintain a strong, co-operative relationship with the devolved Governments and to ensure that the devolution settlements are respected in both principle and practice. New clause 1 will place a statutory requirement on the Secretary of State to obtain consent from the devolved Governments where regulations contain provisions within their devolved competence. That will provide a decisive role for devolved Ministers and underpin continued collaboration in developing product regulation that best supports businesses and consumers in all parts of the UK. With that specific context in mind, I hope the devolved Governments will support the new clause and recommend that their respective legislatures give their consent, and I look forward to hearing the outcome of those debates. I thank ministerial colleagues and officials in the devolved Governments for their engagement and collaborative approach to the Bill. This important new clause demonstrates that by listening carefully, engaging sincerely and acting in good faith, the United Kingdom Government and the devolved Governments can come together to find shared solutions. The legislation provides a new framework for product regulation and metrology that is agile, future-facing and tailored to the needs of the UK, and the new clause will make sure the framework works for all parts of the UK.

• 15 May 2025 · Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [Lords] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  I thank the hon. Member for Wokingham for moving his new clause, although he is pushing his luck asking for another meeting straight off the back of his previous speech. We absolutely recognise the crucialness of the enforcement work done by local authorities. It has become clear that the existing framework of layered, complex legislation is part of the problem—part of the drain on resources—and one of the reasons why the Bill is necessary. The selective implementation of new tools such as civil monetary penalties should further assist in providing more proportionate routes for enforcement authorities to use their enforcement activities, which the Bill addresses. Clause 8 enables the implementation of cost-recovery powers for relevant authorities, and the Office for Product Safety and Standards, in its role as national regulator, supports local authority enforcement teams with training, access to experts, direct support on cases and ringfenced funding for specific projects. The regulator has a dedicated function in respect of communication with local authorities and takes its role extremely seriously. It will provide support on nationally significant cases if local authorities are faced with unco-operative businesses, be they existing supply chain actors or new ones. [ Interruption. ] Was that a request for an intervention? Perhaps it was agreement. Local authority enforcement is a much broader area of consumer protection than product regulation, which is of course the scope of the Bill. This legislation is not the right vehicle for a review because it is singly focused on product regulation, whereas local consumer protection is a much broader policy area. I invite the hon. Member for Wokingham to withdraw his new clause.

• 15 May 2025 · Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [Lords] (Third sitting) · Hansard source

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  As Opposition Members have articulated, the new clause would provide for a delay to the Secretary of State’s implementation of regulatory changes in Great Britain where Northern Ireland Assembly Members provide notification of triggering the Stormont brake on similar regulatory changes in Northern Ireland. That delay would persist until the Government make a determination on that notification. I am sorry that Opposition Members feel that the Windsor framework is not up to scratch any more, but we take our responsibilities under it extremely seriously. The Bill does not alter or restrict the Windsor framework scrutiny mechanisms given to the Northern Ireland Assembly. The shadow Minister questioned the Prime Minister’s commitment to Northern Ireland, and I would remind her that he was in fact Director of Public Prosecutions in Northern Ireland for a number of years before his election to this place. If the new clause were accepted and the Stormont brake were triggered by the Assembly on a particular EU regulation, it would delay the Government from providing certainty on the regulatory approach that we might take and it would cut across the devolution settlement, none of which is the intention of the Bill. The Stormont brake is about EU regulations, but this new clause would prevent UK Ministers from legislating on our own rules, which I am sure is not the shadow Minister’s intention. It is also worth saying that the new clause, as drafted, is inoperable. It refers to the incorrect provisions giving effect to the Stormont brake, which are contained in schedule 6B to the Northern Ireland Act 1998. Again, we have had an awful lot of talk about the EU. We have had a little ride on the ghost train, and nothing that Opposition Members have said bears any relation to the reality of what is in this Bill. I therefore ask that the new clause be withdrawn.

• 13 May 2025 · Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [Lords] (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  Clause 3 reflects an ambition to streamline and modernise our approach to the enforcement of product regulations to ensure that it is proportionate and effective. We will ensure that the tools available for enforcement are effective so that we may further level the playing field for businesses and provide UK consumers with deepened confidence in their purchasing. Many of the powers contained within existing legislation overlap with one another, which has created a proliferated system that is undermined by its complexity. The clause will enable the introduction of regulations that consolidate existing enforcement powers. New regulations will implement a set of flexible, proportionate and effective enforcement tools. The new toolkit will continue to cover activities relating to the monitoring, investigation, sanctioning and remediation of non-compliance with product safety regulations. By delivering these changes through regulations, we will be able to flex and adapt to the marketplace quickly. We will be able to ensure that duties can always be enforced, and it is imperative that duties can be enforced without ambiguity. Through regulations enabled by this clause, we will simplify powers to ensure that they are applicable inland and at the border. We will also ensure that powers are available to enforce duties on all those holding responsibility in the supply chain. Powers should be applicable without unnecessary complexity wherever product regulations require enforcement. Additionally, we intend to augment existing powers carefully with precedented powers such as improvement notices and undertakings, which will provide proportionate routes for resolving non-compliance. Another power under the clause is one to widen or create criminal offences, as well as introduce civil sanctions for the first time. We have committed to following the affirmative procedure when introducing regulations that seek to use the power to widen or create criminal offences. The power will allow offences to meet the requirements imposed by product regulations. Offences and penalties are already often set out in regulations, so this approach follows precedent. Finally, the clause will allow the Secretary of State to designate relevant authorities responsible for product regulation enforcement to both ensure flexibility and provide additional clarity. We have included a non-exhaustive list of those relevant authorities in the Bill’s explanatory notes. As I have mentioned, relevant authorities will include those currently enforcing product regulation, such as local authority enforcement teams, the Office for Product Safety and Standards and the Health and Safety Executive. Relevant authorities will have access to the new, consolidated toolkit of enforcement powers that I have described. The clause is necessary for the proper enforcement of the UK’s product safety regime, and I commend it to the Committee.

• 13 May 2025 · Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [Lords] (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  I am glad that the shadow Minister is keen to hear from me. I can, I think, explain the power in subsection (6); it refers to subsection (3)(c) and (d), which cover compliance with metrology regulations and mitigating the effect of non-compliance with metrology regulations. This provision is about making sure that those delivering and producing those products are doing so accurately and in compliance with the law. By its nature, subsection (6) has to be broad, but it has to be seen in the context of subsection (3)(c) and (d), which explain the context in which that power would operate. As the shadow Minister said, the argument here is similar—it is possibly identical—to the one we had earlier about the powers. As I said earlier, enforcement authorities include the Office for Product Safety and Standards, local authority enforcement officers, the Health and Safety Executive, and the Office for Nuclear Regulation. We need to ensure that these bodies can enforce in a targeted way, with the relevant requirements created by these regulations, which set out clearly what those powers do, and they must do so while fulfilling a public function, as set out in clause 6(2) and clause 3(2), which we debated earlier.

• 13 May 2025 · Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [Lords] (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  Amendment 23 would prevent the naming in regulations of “relevant authorities”. That would render enforcement of the Bill impossible, so clearly it is not an amendment that we will accept. Local authority enforcement officers conduct the majority of product safety and metrology enforcement activities, and the Office for Product Safety and Standards is the national regulator. Other regulators are also responsible for enforcement, including the Health and Safety Executive, the Office for Nuclear Regulation, the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, the Office of Communications and the Office of Rail and Road. There is an indicative list in the explanatory notes to the Bill and the code of conduct. We need to be clear in clause 3 because it is important that the authorities are able to enforce in a targeted way when regulations are created. The Bill places sensible and important restrictions on those who may be named as a “relevant authority”. Only those who are fulfilling a public function will be given powers under the Bill. That is set out in subsections (2) and (3).

• 13 May 2025 · Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [Lords] (Second sitting) · Hansard source

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  Government amendment 2 is a necessary technical amendment to correct an amendment that was inserted in the other place on Third Reading, to ensure that the powers in the Bill can be used effectively, such as by introducing cost-recovery provisions in accordance with clause 8. Without getting too technical, I understand that this is something to do with financial privilege. Clause 13 details the territorial extent of the Bill. As we know, the Bill’s provisions extend to England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The Bill’s extent means we can introduce regulations that reflect the realities of the UK market—that is, businesses and consumers can buy and trade most products in all parts of the UK. Having regulations that help to protect consumers and provide clarity and certainty for businesses about their obligations is an important part of maintaining a well-functioning UK market. The Government have been clear in their intention to ensure that the devolution settlements are respected in both principle and practice. Indeed, we have tabled a new clause that will place a statutory requirement on the Secretary of State to obtain the consent of the devolved Governments where regulations contain provision within their devolved competence. We will probably debate that on another day. Clause 14 is, I hope, a non-controversial clause. It details that the Bill will come into force with immediate effect on the day on which the Bill is passed, with the exception of section 10(1) and (3), which will be commenced by regulations at a later date. This is typical for Bills that contain delegated powers. For this Bill, it will allow the UK to start making proactive choices about product regulation through laying statutory instruments soon after Royal Assent. The Government intend to take action to modernise and clarify requirements for online marketplaces. That will improve the safety of products sold on their platforms to UK consumers. The Bill’s immediate entry into force will also allow the UK to proactively choose how to respond to the upcoming changes to EU laws that we currently recognise—it has been a while since we mentioned the EU, but I am glad we got another reference in. This will provide industry with regulatory stability and certainty, and support economic growth. Finally, clause 15 is a non-controversial clause that sets out the Bill’s short title. It provides a more convenient name for the Bill. This is in addition to, and does not replace, the long title. I therefore commend amendment 2 and clauses 13 to 15 to the Committee.

• 25 Mar 2025 · Terms and Conditions of Employment · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend makes a very important point that those rights are only as good as the ability of the Government to enforce them. As we know, His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has a very effective system to deliver on the minimum wage and we will shortly be releasing our latest round of naming and shaming of those employers who have not done the right thing. We hope that the fair work agency, when it is established, will be even more effective at delivering fairness across the country and ensuring that everyone gets the minimum wage they deserve. We know there are particular sectors where there are acute challenges. I turn to the points made by the Scottish National party spokesperson, the hon. Member for Dundee Central (Chris Law), about the bills and costs of an 18-year-old being the same as those for an adult. That is something I absolutely understand. It is why we changed the Low Pay Commission’s remit to ensure that we eventually get parity for that age group on the full adult rate. It is also why we have changed the remit of the Low Pay Commission to move towards a real living wage for all adults. We understand that that is such an important thing for us to deliver on. He may feel that we are not quite there yet, and we must ensure we take evidence as we go along from businesses on how it impacts on particular sectors and particular parts of society, but 18 to 20-year-olds are getting a £2,500 pay rise this year as a result of the regulations. That is something I am sure he will welcome. My hon. Friend the Member for Newton Aycliffe and Spennymoor (Alan Strickland) raised very well the regional impacts of the wage increase in his part of the world. It is the case that the regulations will mean 140,000 workers in the north-east, or 14.5% of the total workforce in that region, will benefit from the increase. We should all be absolutely delighted about that. My hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Rosie Wrighting) also raised in-work poverty. That is why the remit is being changed. We want to ensure that in-work poverty is consigned to the history books. My hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (David Pinto-Duschinsky) set out in stark terms the figures associated with the regulations. I may mention them again at some point before I finish. They are the bold numbers that will go directly into people’s pockets and that we can show as tangible proof of a Labour Government delivering for working people. My hon. Friend also raised the matter of the empty Opposition Benches. I do not want to equate that with meaning that the Conservatives do not support these increases, as I think the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for West Worcestershire (Dame Harriett Baldwin), said that they did. I do put her on notice, though, that her party leader has been less than full in her support for the minimum wage, so I hope that the shadow Minister’s support for today’s measures has not damaged her career prospects. It may well be that there is another leader in a few months anyway, and that things will be looking up. We do hope that the Conservatives continue to support the minimum wage as we move forward and that they do not change tack now that they have entered opposition. However, the shadow Minister did raise a number of important questions, which I will now try to address. She raised the impact on public sector workers. Of course, pay for most frontline workers is set through pay review body processes, which do take account of national living wage increases as part of their processes. We do not believe that many public sector workers will be directly affected by this change, but it is something the Departments will take into account when they set their budgets. The shadow Minister also asked about the cumulative impact of the changes. The impact assessment does show that this year’s upratings will represent a 0.14% increase in the UK-wide wage bill, which I think is incredibly good value for what we are delivering into people’s pockets. Of course, the total impact of the Employment Rights Bill is, at most, 0.4% of the total wage bill. The hon. Lady raised questions about burdens on SMEs. The Low Pay Commission does take into account the impact on business as part of its operations. It looks at the competitiveness of individual businesses, the labour market and the wider economy, drawing on extensive labour market pay analysis and stakeholder evidence when recommending rates, and we would expect the commission to do exactly the same next year. Small businesses have, of course, had support from this Government. We have increased the employment allowance from £5,000 to £10,500, meaning that 865,000 employers will pay no national insurance contributions at all, and more than half of employers will gain or see no change from this measure. We have also extended business rates relief for the retail, hospitality and leisure sectors. The hon. Lady raised concerns about the impact of the measures on young people. The youth guarantee will ensure that every young person has access to education or training to help them to find a job, and we are transforming the apprenticeship levy to ensure that young people get the opportunities they deserve. The shadow Minister raised concerns about the overall labour market. I would just make the point that payroll employment is actually higher now than it was this time last year, and the latest labour force survey last week showed record numbers of people in work. Perhaps the negative headlines that we have been seeing are not actually the reality of the situation. I like to deal with facts, Madam Deputy Speaker, and the facts are that these regulations will put more money into the pockets of workers around the country—around 200,000 workers in Scotland, 160,000 workers in Northern Ireland and 150,000 workers in Wales. This will make a real difference to people: £1,400 for a full-time worker and £2,500 for someone on the 18-to-20 rate. This is truly a worthwhile exercise, and we thank the Low Pay Commission for its work, as well as HMRC, which enforces on behalf of the Department, and ACAS, which offers impartial advice and expertise to ensure that workplace disputes can be resolved and workers’ rights can be upheld. This is a meaningful change being delivered by this Government that delivers a powerful message: this Government, and indeed this Parliament, are committed to making work pay. These real-terms increases to the minimum wage will end insecurity at work. I commend these regulations to the House. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That the draft National Minimum Wage (Amendment) Regulations 2025, which were laid before the House on 4 February, be approved.

• 18 Mar 2025 · St Patrick’s Day: UK Bank Holiday · Hansard source

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  I thank the hon. Member for his intervention. I am sure that if I did some polling, there would be support, but I will come on to some of the reasons why we may not be able to grant him his wish on this occasion. During the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland’s recent visit to Washington, he participated in the annual St Patrick’s day events and engaged with the US Administration, congressional members, business leaders and key stakeholders. He promoted Northern Ireland as a fantastic place to invest, work and live, highlighting its unique access to both the UK’s internal market and the EU’s single market. I am very pleased that the Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, my hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson), is in the Chamber tonight. She has been very active during St Patrick’s season, attending receptions for community and business leaders in Stormont and Westminster.

• 18 Mar 2025 · St Patrick’s Day: UK Bank Holiday · Hansard source

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  I congratulate the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) on securing this Adjournment debate. I know that he is not familiar with the operation of Adjournment debates, so I am glad that he has found his way here this evening. If he wants to intervene, he will have about 10 minutes to do so—we would not want that streak to be broken, would we? I wish the hon. Gentleman and everyone a belated but very happy St Patrick’s day. I enjoyed hearing his contribution on what St Patrick’s day means to him and to his community in Northern Ireland. I know that he has spoken very passionately about this subject on a number of occasions, as we would expect. In preparation for this debate, I contacted my family historian—my mum—to understand my Irish roots. Going back several generations, I have a fair bit over there, so I am pleased to report that I had one pint of Guinness yesterday to mark the occasion. The Government appreciate the deep cultural and religious significance of St Patrick’s day to many nationalists and Unionists across Northern Ireland, some of whom revere St Patrick for his role in the arrival and growth of Christianity on the island. As the hon. Member for Strangford said, he is for everybody. It is also a cherished day for those who serve and have served in the Irish regiments of the British Army, with the annual presentation of the shamrock to the Irish Guards by members of the royal family. The familial relationship with Ireland and Northern Ireland is so important to people across the UK, as it is to this Government. By way of just one example, our NHS is stronger for the contributions of the many Irish nationals who serve in it today and have done since its founding. The most recent statistics, from June 2023, showed that nearly 14,000 members of NHS staff were Irish, including doctors, nurses, and of course support staff. Following the recent general election in Ireland, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the Tánaiste have discussed the strength of the bilateral relationship, our shared commitment to the Good Friday agreement, and the importance of upholding political stability in Northern Ireland. We have also increased engagement between the two Governments, especially through the new Prime Minister-Taoiseach summits. The first of those summits took place on 5 March, about a mile from where I live in my constituency, although for some reason my invite did not quite reach me—I do not know why that was. It was clear from that summit that the Prime Minister and the Taoiseach have agreed a joint vision for co-operation through to 2030, which will bring our two countries together like never before. Through the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference and the British-Irish Council, we engage regularly with the Irish Government and the Northern Ireland Executive on matters of shared concern. Of course, many people across the world look forward to the annual St Patrick’s day celebrations, which showcase the significant contributions of Irish people. This year, we saw parades through the cities of Belfast, Cardiff, Glasgow, Liverpool and Leeds, and here in London in Trafalgar Square.

• 5 Mar 2025 · Department for Business and Trade · Hansard source

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  First, I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Hodge Hill and Solihull North (Liam Byrne), and indeed the hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway (John Cooper), for securing the debate, and for the work that they do on the Business and Trade Committee. The hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway littered his speech with football analogies, to the extent that I wondered whether you were going to show him a red card, Madam Deputy Speaker, but you did not. He made many criticisms of the Government, but all I would say is that we are not even at half-time yet. Let us wait until we get to the end of the match. There were a number of important and interesting contributions to the debate. I will try to address as many of them as I can in the time that I have. It is clear that the Department is central to driving economic growth, ensuring that we remain competitive on the global stage, and making work pay for everyone. The Government’s growth mission has been our top priority since day one of taking office, because we understand that without economic growth we cannot invest in public services, nor can we raise living standards for hard-working families. To secure the growth that we need, we are guided by four key principles: building long-term stability; renewing our commitment to free and fair trade; easing the investor journey; and being a strategic, growth-focused state. We have wasted no time in getting to work on that, and in fixing the foundations of the economy. My Department has been at the forefront of those efforts, and I will try to explain the things that we have done as I answer the points raised during the debate. I start with the comments of the Select Committee Chair, my right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Hodge Hill and Solihull North. I was pleased to hear that he found terrific unity of purpose on the Government’s ambitions for growth. I join him in paying tribute to the civil servants who are helping us to deliver on those ambitions. He raised a number of important points. He talked about getting the right workforce, as did my hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth (Sarah Edwards). We will have a levy-funded growth and skills offer that will deliver greater flexibility for learners and employers. That will be aligned with our industrial strategy, creating routes into good, skilled jobs in growing industries. As a first step, we will ensure shorter duration and foundation apprenticeships in targeted sectors. That will help more people to learn high-quality skills at work, fuelling innovation in businesses across the country and providing high-quality entry pathways for young people. We will, through legislation, reduce the minimum duration of apprenticeships to eight months, so that shorter apprenticeships are possible from August 2025. Trailblazer apprenticeships in green energy, healthcare and film and TV production will be among the first to take advantage of that new offer. Also, in response to calls from employers, assessment plans will be less burdensome, focusing on the must-haves for occupational competency, rather than testing every knowledge, skill or behaviour. The Select Committee Chairman made an important point on an issue that I have been looking at carefully: how we harmonise regulation, make sure that we do not have different Departments talking to different people and saying different things, streamline, and ensure a cohesive environment in which businesses can invest and grow. He will be pleased to know that I have been meeting colleagues from other Departments, and particularly Lord Vallance, the Minister of State for science, research and innovation, who is looking at innovation in this area. We also now have Government growth boards, which are looking at this Government’s missions to ensure that that cross-departmental grip on matters. The Select Committee Chair, along with my hon. Friends the Members for Dudley (Sonia Kumar) and for Tamworth, asked how we can use the British Business Bank to help businesses access finance. We are looking very closely at that. The bank is operationally independent, but we are working with it to ensure that businesses can navigate the market better and have clearer information and options available to them. There is also a package for encouraging tech adoption among SMEs, and we hope that the British Growth Partnership will get that pension fund investment into some of the UK’s fastest growing companies. The Select Committee Chair asked about the figure of £126.7 million. My understanding is that it is the result of a revaluation of the Department’s investment portfolio. That is a standard process, and I am happy to put him in touch with officials for a more detailed explanation of that, if he requires it. My hon. Friend the Member for Livingston (Gregor Poynton) asked about the Grangemouth refinery. It is deeply regrettable that we have had to step in and put plans in place there. There is £100 million for the Falkirk and Grangemouth growth deal, which will help boost the local economy. There is a £1.5 million project to look at credible, long-term industrial options for the site, which we expect to report in the spring. The National Wealth Fund will also provide nearly £200 million of growth opportunities for the area. My hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North (Amanda Martin) highlighted the devastating impact that a lack of a strategy can have on a community in her constituency. I join Opposition Members in thanking her son for his service in the defence of our nation. She will be pleased to know that our industrial strategy Green Paper, “Invest 2035: the UK’s modern industrial strategy”, sets out the eight key growth-driving sectors into which we want to channel investment and support in the long term. We want to unleash the full potential of those priority sectors to spur growth, spread wealth and drive up employment across all four nations of the UK. Each of the industries will have its own sector plan, setting out how we intend to support businesses, build on existing successes and unlock new opportunities. Those sector plans are being designed in partnership with business, devolved Governments, regions and other key parties. The industrial strategy, alongside sector plans for the growth-driving sectors, will be published later this year, and will be aligned with the multi-year spending review.

• 22 Jan 2025 · Competition and Markets Authority Chairman · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend is right that we need to give the business community confidence that decisions will be made quickly to provide certainty, so that it can move forward with investments for the benefit of the whole economy.

• 16 Jan 2025 · Employment Rights Bill (Twenty First sitting) · Hansard source

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  It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair this morning, Sir Christopher. I start by referring to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. I congratulate the hon. Member for Bridgwater on the new clause and join him in paying tribute to his constituent Emma-Elizabeth Murphy and all special constables who perform the vital work that Members have spoken in support of. We recognise and value the vital role that special constables play, which includes supporting neighbourhood policing. We are committed to ensuring that police forces have the support that they need from the Government to tackle important matters of public safety. Special constables, along with the full range of police volunteers, bring valuable and diverse skills that complement the roles that officers and staff play in delivering the best service to the public. We recognise that there has been a fall in the number of special constables over recent years. Further work needs to be done to understand exactly the reasons for that. Initial consideration suggests that a range of factors has led to the reduction in the number of special constables. It is not clear whether the new clause would reverse that trend or what its impact on business would be—the hon. Member for Bridgwater has been a constant critic of the Bill’s impact on businesses—so we need to understand that better. We are already doing a range of work to support special constables and employment rights more broadly. We are introducing the neighbourhood policing guarantee, which will put thousands of additional police officers, police community support officers and special constables on our streets and restore patrols in town centres across the country. Many employers already support their employees to volunteer in a special constabulary. Under the Employer Supported Policing scheme, led by the National Police Chiefs’ Council, a number of organisations across a range of sectors have committed to supporting members of their workforce to serve as special constables, in recognition of the opportunities to build new skills and support local communities. The Home Office is also supporting the NPCC to develop and implement initiatives to improve the recruitment and retention of special constables. That includes developing a refreshed national citizens in policing strategy and a national special constabulary working group. I will not be able to accept the new clause, but I am sympathetic to the case that has been made. In preparation for dealing with it, I learned that that the initial legislation that introduced time off for certain public duties is now 50 years old, so it seems time to consider this issue in the round, and the role of special constables will no doubt be included in that. The Home Office will clearly have an important say. As I said, a number of factors has led to the decline in the number of special constables in recent years.

• 16 Jan 2025 · Employment Rights Bill (Twenty First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Let us start where we can all agree: volunteering is a very important part of our society and we want to do everything we can to encourage it. It is a central part of civic life and has a positive impact on our society, and we all pay tribute to the volunteers in our communities. There are large employers that have impact days and corporate social responsibility days where they come into the community—there are a number of examples in my constituency where that has happened. Larger employers, in particular, have been able to pool their resources and have a real benefit in their communities. However, as the shadow Minister outlined, the Government will be undertaking a significant number of consultations, and we do not wish to add to that at this stage. We want to focus on the priorities in our “Make Work Pay” agenda. In particular, we want to see how the enhanced right to flexible working will benefit people’s ability to volunteer. We believe that when we implement the new rights to flexible working in the earlier parts of the Bill, they will enable employees to access flexible working requests in order to fit in their volunteering, and that further legislation is not necessary at this time. The Department for Culture, Media and Sport is delivering the Know Your Neighbourhood fund, which has a key focus to ensure that learning is shared “on how people in disadvantaged areas can be supported to volunteer and improve their social connections”. So there is work going on in Government, and a recognition that volunteering is an important part of the fabric of our society, but, as has been indicated, we do not wish to undertake additional consultations at this point.

• 13 Jan 2025 · Draft Registrar (Identity Verification and Authorised Corporate Service Providers) Regulations 2024 Draft Unique Identifiers (Application of Company Law) Regulations 2024 · Hansard source

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  It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Stringer. The registrar regulations were laid before the House in draft on 22 May 2024, and the unique identifiers regulations were laid before the House in draft on 31 October 2024. They form part of a programme to implement the Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Act 2023. The 2023 Act is a landmark piece of legislation that delivers the most significant reforms to Companies House in more than 180 years, in order to protect the public from fraud and deliver real benefits to the business community. There has already been much progress since the Act was passed, including the introduction of stricter rules and checks to help Companies House to cleanse the register. The two sets of regulations before us will help to implement perhaps the most important changes to the UK’s company registration framework in the Act, requiring identity verification for those setting up, running and controlling companies. The 2023 Act amended the Companies Act 2006 to establish two ways in which an individual can verify their identity: either directly with Companies House or via an authorised corporate service provider, which I will refer to as an ACSP. The providers must be supervised for anti-money laundering purposes and registered with Companies House. I will set out specifically what the two instruments do. The draft Registrar (Identity Verification and Authorised Corporate Service Providers) Regulations 2024 set out the legal framework that underpins identity verification. The identity verification procedure will involve an individual delivering specific information to the registrar or to an ACSP, which must include their name, date of birth and any further information specified in the registrar’s rules, which are a form of tertiary legislation. Given the technical and increasingly evolving mechanisms for identity verification, it would be inappropriate to list every single identity document that must be provided to the registrar or an ASCP, or every single step that an individual must take in the regulations. Instead, the registrar is enabled to specify the requirements in a more suitable form and adapt or tweak the detail quickly where necessary. Companies House has produced a draft version of the registrar’s rules—I hope that they are in the Committee Room for Members to see—which I hope will provide some examples of the kind of information that might be required from applicants. When the registrar or ACSP receives all the correct information from an applicant, they will grant the identity verification application if they are satisfied that the information provided is true. That is the broad legal process for identity verification. In practice, Companies House will use the gov.uk One Login platform to deliver its identity verification service. One Login is a cross-government verification platform that enables users to have a single login and verified identity for multiple government services. An individual will create an account and can verify their identity using a range of evidence, such as a passport or driving licence, or through knowledge-based verification questions based on their credit record or banking information. The process also includes checks to ensure that the individual matches the picture on their photo ID. For most people completing the purely digital route, the process will take a matter of minutes. Individuals can also complete the process in person at a post office. If an individual decides to verify via an ACSP, the ACSP must follow the legal procedure established in these regulations and in the registrar’s rules. Companies House will issue guidance to ACSPs to explain how the procedure should be applied in practice and what checks they must perform on the information received. That will ensure that both routes achieve the same level of assurance in identity verification. Once an ACSP verifies an applicant’s identity, it will deliver a verification statement to Companies House to confirm that it has followed the correct procedure. The verification statement will be published alongside the applicant’s appointments on the register to maximise transparency. Alongside this verification statement, ACSPs must give the registrar information about the evidence they relied on to verify an individual’s identity. That means that Companies House will not lose access to crucial identity data if someone uses an ACSP and will also be provided with an assurance that the identity checks have been completed correctly. The regulations add other checks and balances to the ACSP regime. ACSPs will be required to maintain records relating to the identity verification for seven years from the date they determined the identity verification request. The registrar can suspend and de-authorise an ACSP if they do not consider it to be fit and proper to carry out the functions of an ACSP. Finally, the registrar can perform spot checks on ACSPs and ask them to provide information about their identity verification obligations. All those provisions combined ensure that Companies House has the tools at its disposal to ensure that the ACSP regime is as effective and robust as possible. I now turn briefly to the second set of regulations, the draft Unique Identifiers (Application of Company Law) Regulations 2024. These are technical and apply provisions on unique identifiers contained in the Registrar (Identity Verification and Authorised Corporate Service Providers) Regulations 2024 to other entities. A key mechanism underpinning the operation of identity verification is the use of a unique identifier or personal code, which we use to identify individuals who have had their identity verified, as well as registered ACSPs. The first set of regulations we covered will enable allocation of unique identifiers to individuals associated with companies. These regulations give the registrar the power to allocate unique identifiers to ACSPs and individuals associated with other entities, namely limited partnerships, limited liability partnerships, companies authorised to register, unregistered companies, and Scottish qualifying partnerships. Identity verification requirements will eventually apply to other entities registered at Companies House, so it is necessary that we make these regulations relating to unique identifiers to ensure these requirements can operate in practice. Finally, I want to update the Committee on the timings of identity verification. Companies House published its outline transition plan last October, which confirmed that it aims to start requiring identity verification from autumn of this year. In a few weeks, ACSPs will be able to register and individuals will be able to voluntarily verify their identity with Companies House, giving people lots of time to complete the process before legal requirements actually start.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Employment Rights Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Clause 105 applies the offences in part 5 of the Bill to corporate bodies. It is a standard clause that can be found in predecessor legislation, such as section 27 of the Immigration Act 2016. The clause ensures accountability at both the organisational and individual levels, and practicality in legislation. It makes certain that those complicit in the offence can be held personally liable. Clause 106 applies the offences in part 5 of the Bill to partnerships; clause 107 applies them to unincorporated associations. Subsections (5) and (6) of clause 107 specify that liability is attached to those who committed the offence with consent or who were negligent regarding the offence, as well as to the association. Unincorporated associations play a significant role in various sectors, including sports and community services. These two clauses ensure that all business structures are subject to enforcement. They are standard clauses that are found in predecessor legislation, such as section 30 of the Immigration Act 2016. Clause 108 sets out how the provisions of part 5 of the Bill relating to the enforcement of labour market legislation apply to the Crown and parliamentary estate. Clause 108(1) provides that all provisions in part 5 are binding on the Crown. Subsection (2) defines Crown premises as any premises “held or used by or on behalf of the Crown”. This means that fair work agency inspectors can enter and inspect Crown premises using powers set out earlier in the Bill. We believe this is right. The Crown employs individuals who are entitled to rights in scope of the fair work agency’s remit. The clause will enable officers to carry out investigations and gather information to ensure that the rights of Crown employees are as effectively enforced as other employees’ rights. The clause also contains certain exemptions that we believe are justified. First, subsection (6) exempts the King’s private estates from the powers of entry. The King’s private estates are defined in the Crown Private Estates Act 1862. They are distinguished from Crown premises. They are not defined as premises used in connection with Crown business and employing staff. Secondly, subsection (6) also exempts “premises occupied for the purposes of either House of Parliament” from the powers of entry. The main premises we would expect the fair work agency to enter in relation to Parliament would be the offices of MPs and peers. The wording here ensures that the exemption is wide enough to exempt Members’ offices in the Palace of Westminster and those beyond it. This exemption reflects standard practice. I want to draw the Committee’s attention to amendments we have tabled for national security reasons. Clause 108(5) of the Bill as introduced enables the Secretary of State to exempt Crown premises from powers of entry where they deem it necessary for national security reasons. The starting point of the current drafting is that powers of entry apply generally and need to be disapplied. The exemption applies only to investigations of Crown premises that would have national security implications. Government new clause 49 restricts the exercise of powers in clauses 78 and 79 in relation to the intelligence services, unless the Secretary of State is satisfied that use of the powers would not be prejudicial to national security, the prevention or detection of serious crime, or the economic wellbeing of the UK. The new clause requires the Secretary of State to issue a certificate before the powers can be exercised. Government amendment 182 amends clause 108(1) to provide textual consistency and ensure the new clause functions as intended. Our amendments strike a balance to ensure that the fair work agency is able to investigate the security agencies where necessary, while also ensuring that the powers are not used in a way that could damage the UK’s security interests. Question put and agreed to. Clause 105 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clauses 106 and 107 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 108 Application of this Part to the Crown Amendment made: 182, in clause 108, page 100, line 2, after “of” insert “section (Information relating to the intelligence services, etc) and”.— (Justin Madders.) This amendment is consequential on NC49. Clause 108, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 109 Abolition of existing enforcement authorities Question proposed , That the clause stand part of the Bill.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Employment Rights Bill (Eighteenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  The shadow Minister lays down a challenge for me. On the Pensions Ombudsman—I will certainly write to him if anything occurs to me after consultation with officials—it is not unusual for an individual’s payslip or contract to indicate that pension deductions have been made, when they have not actually reached the appropriate pension funds. That may be one example of where such a reference could be made. The shadow Minister will be aware from the Low Pay Commission’s recent reports that health and social care are the sectors where some of the worst labour market abuses are ongoing, so it is important that we are sighted of particular issues in those sectors. I will take further advice on any other specific examples I might be able to give him, and I will write to him in due course. Amendment 97 agreed to. Amendments made: 171, in schedule 5, page 130, line 29, at end insert— “The National Crime Agency.” This amendment would enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of enforcement functions under Part 5 of the Bill to be disclosed to the National Crime Agency for the purposes of its functions. Amendment 98, in schedule 5, page 131, line 20, at end insert— “Healthcare Improvement Scotland.” This amendment would enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of enforcement functions under Part 5 of the Bill to be disclosed to Healthcare Improvement Scotland for the purposes of its functions. Amendment 99, in schedule 5, page 131, line 20, at end insert— “Social Care and Social Work Improvement Scotland.” This amendment would enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of enforcement functions under Part 5 of the Bill to be disclosed to Social Care and Social Work Improvement Scotland for the purposes of its functions. Amendment 100, in schedule 5, page 131, line 20, at end insert— “The Scottish Social Services Council.” This amendment would enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of enforcement functions under Part 5 of the Bill to be disclosed to the Scottish Social Services Council for the purposes of its functions. Amendment 172, in schedule 5, page 131, line 20, at end insert— “Social Care Wales.” This amendment would enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of enforcement functions under Part 5 of the Bill to be disclosed to Social Care Wales for the purposes of its functions. Amendment 173, in schedule 5, page 131, line 20, at end insert— “The Health and Social Care Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority in Northern Ireland.” This amendment would enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of enforcement functions under Part 5 of the Bill to be disclosed to the Health and Social Care Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority for the purposes of its functions. Amendment 174, in schedule 5, page 131, line 23, at end insert— “The Welsh Ministers.” —(Justin Madders.) This amendment would enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of enforcement functions under Part 5 of the Bill to be disclosed to the Welsh Ministers for the purposes of their functions. Question proposed, That the schedule, as amended, be the Fifth schedule to the Bill.

• 9 Jan 2025 · Employment Rights Bill (Seventeenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  As a regional MP—a north-west Member—I am always looking to see where we can get more Government agencies out into the rest of the country. It is probably too early to say, but those kinds of decisions are being looked at. At the moment, His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs deals with minimum wage enforcement. Moving such a specific task across to another body will take some time, so there may well be a period during which HMRC continues to undertake that work, albeit that it is within the remit of the fair work agency. Such operational details will be discussed and dealt with in due course. The hon. Member for West Suffolk made a point about the powers of individual officers. Initially, we envisage that officers will move into, effectively, their existing roles. It will be a matter for operational consideration in due course whether it is beneficial to extend people’s remits. It will not be required of anyone without sufficient training and safeguards in place, but as the agency develops, it may well be considered advantageous to broaden the role of enforcement officers. One of the rationales for the body is that there are often several aspects to an employer’s breach of obligations, so we want the fair work agency to be able to tackle these things as a whole. However, that is an operational matter that will be dealt with in due course. I commend the clause to the Committee. Question put and agreed to. Clause 72, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Schedule 4 Legislation subject to enforcement under part 5

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employment Rights Bill (Sixteenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I will respond briefly to some of the points that have been made. I was asked why we need to put equality representatives on statutory footing. I think the hon. Member for Torbay gave just one example of the ongoing issues of discrimination in many workplaces up and down the country but, of course, this Bill also seeks to expand family friendly rights. Anyone who takes cognisance of local authority matters—I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Northfield does so more than most—will be aware that equal pay is still a huge issue in many local authorities. This is over 50 years since the Equal Pay Act 1970 was brought into force, so there is a strong case for allowing equality reps to bring their value to the workplace. The amendment on performance targets is particularly unfair. In effect, the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire is seeking to punish trade union members for the failings of their employer if they do not hit performance targets. None of those targets have been specified in the legislation. Perhaps it is a reflection of the fact that under his party’s Administration, most public services did not meet performance targets, and he was hoping that if they got back into power he would be able to use that to deny facility time to all trade union representatives.

• 17 Dec 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Thirteenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Clause 28 introduces schedule 3, which inserts proposed new part 8A into the Education Act 2002. Paragraph 1 of schedule 3 contains proposed new sections 148A to 148R of the 2002 Act and will be discussed separately. The reinstatement of the school support staff negotiating body will give school support staff the recognition they deserve for the crucial role they play in children’s education and development. Establishing the SSSNB through the Bill will help ensure that schools can recruit and retain the staff needed to deliver high-quality, inclusive education and support the Government’s work to drive high and rising standards in schools, so every child has the best life chances. The body will bring together representatives of school support staff employers, representatives of support staff, an independent chairperson and a representative of the Secretary of State. The SSSNB will consider the remuneration, terms and conditions of employment, training and career progression opportunities for school support staff. Its remit will lead to the creation of a national terms and conditions handbook, fair pay rates and clearer training and career progression routes for school support staff in England. Most school support staff are currently employed on National Joint Council for local government services pay and conditions. The NJC is a negotiating body made up of representatives from trade unions and local government employers. Existing NJC arrangements are not statutory or school specific. Moving to a school-specific body where pay rates and pay awards for support staff are negotiated by school support staff employer and employee representatives and ratified by the Secretary of State will both help to ensure fair pay rates for school support staff and allow central Government to have a strategic view of pay across the school workforce. It is essential for the SSSNB to have a statutory remit so that all prospective and current support staff in state schools nationally benefit from a transparent, guaranteed core pay and conditions offer. The Bill re-establishes the SSSNB as an unincorporated body on a similar footing to the previous body from 2009 that was abolished by the coalition Government in 2010. As education is a devolved matter, the extent of these measures is therefore England and Wales and the measures will apply to England only. This is consistent and in line with the remit of the School Teachers Review Body being England only. The 2009 SSSNB included only those support staff employed by local authorities and governing bodies to work in maintained schools within its scope. Roughly half of schools are now academies, compared with around 200 in 2009 when the body was previously established. Support staff employed by academy trusts are now included within the SSSNB’s remit. It is crucial that the body has a remit for all state-funded schools in England in order to achieve greater national consistency, irrespective of which type of school support staff work in. That is a point that we may come on to debate in due course.

• 17 Dec 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Thirteenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I take the shadow Minister’s point. I am not familiar with the machinations of Hammersmith and Fulham council in the 2010s, and it may well be that savings were made by doing things differently. But there is absolutely no reason why that cannot be done directly from a public body: if it is well led, if it is able to have constructive dialogue with its work force, savings can be made. The difficulty with the shadow Minister’s analysis is that, while he may have been able to find savings for the taxpayer through those kinds of measures, too often the savings are made by cutting terms and conditions for new workers. That is why, as he said in his original contribution, the second or third outsourcing is usually where the savings happen, because it is when those new workers come in on lower terms and conditions that the savings begin to emerge. That is why the whole outsourcing trick is a con, because it is how those savings tend to be made. When we add in the contract monitoring costs and the profit motivations for the outsourced company to make a living from these things, we can quickly see why it becomes a bad deal for the taxpayer. I certainly make no apologies for putting forward this proposal, because we think it is the right thing to do, to respect and value those who work in public service and ensure that they are paid the same as their colleagues for doing the same work. I therefore commend—

• 17 Dec 2024 · Employment Rights Bill (Thirteenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  We have had a broad debate—very broad from my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Northfield, who took us on a canter through the history. He was right that it was the coalition Government who abolished the two-tier code, which is why it is welcome that the Liberal Democrats have realised the error of their ways; I welcome their support on this. Their spokesperson, the hon. Member for Chippenham, made the important point that the inherent unfairness of people doing exactly the same job for the same employer finding out that they are on different terms and conditions and are earning less is a big morale sapper. It is also a big issue in terms of workforce retention—one problem that we often see with outsourced contracts. I will turn to the shadow Minister’s misty-eyed days at Hammersmith and Fulham, and I will raise him Ellesmere Port and Neston borough council, which was a great believer in direct provision of services; we certainly felt that was the best way to deliver value for the taxpayer and good-quality services. In his contribution, the shadow Minister alighted on the illusion of outsourcing—the fact that consultants can demonstrate that savings can be made, but when you drill into the detail, those savings are always off the back of the workforce. They are not some magical way of doing things differently. It is about cutting terms and conditions and it is about a race to the bottom, which we are determined to end.