Justin Madders MP: speeches 2024

Speeches

• 12 Nov 2024 · Pubs Code: Guest Beers · Hansard source

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  I absolutely do thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. He has obviously heard that I am quite easily tempted into Strangers. It is a very important part of the facilities that the Strangers Bar offers Members the opportunity to serve guest beers. It is a great opportunity to plug great local businesses. Small independent brewers often reflect their local area in their products, from locally sourced ingredients to their marketing, branding and style. The resurgence in brewing in the UK over the last decade has strengthened awareness among the general public of local beers, whether it is the new-style craft beers or independent breweries resurrecting well-loved local beers that had been lost in the consolidation of larger breweries.

• 12 Nov 2024 · Pubs Code: Guest Beers · Hansard source

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  I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. That is a really important point. It is an essential part of our culture and a real selling point for us around the world. When people come here, they want to visit a traditional English or British pub, and we have a different style in every part of the country. The point made earlier by my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle about some of the larger breweries now mimicking the local brands is an interesting development, which shows that imitation is the best form of flattery. More generally, we know there are challenges for the hospitality sector, which is still struggling to recover from the pandemic. The subsequent cost of living crisis has compounded the challenge for pubs, increasing costs and the ability of businesses to repay debts. This is an ongoing struggle. Our system of business rates is particularly unfair on high street businesses. It disincentivises investment, creates uncertainty and places an undue burden on our high streets. That is why the Government are undertaking a review of the business rates system, to ensure that all businesses are paying their fair share, recognising and addressing the fact that high street businesses, including pubs, have shouldered the majority of the burden for far too long. In her Budget, the Chancellor announced that the Government are freezing the small businesses multiplier for 2025-26 to protect small properties from inflationary bill increases, and that retail, hospitality and leisure businesses will receive 40% relief worth up to £110,000 per business. This support package alone is worth over £2.2 billion over five years. It was also announced in the Budget that the Government would reduce the alcohol duty on draft products. This will reduce businesses’ total duty bill by up to £100 million a year and increase the duty differential between draft and non-draft products from 9.2% to 13.9%, so that a pint in the pub attracts less duty than the beer in the supermarket. The Government will also increase the cash discount provided to small brewers and producers for non-draught products and maintain the current cash discount provided to small producers for draught products. This in effect increases the relative value of small producer relief for both draught and non-draught products. Jobs, too, lie at the heart of our plans, backed by the Employment Rights Bill, which had its Second Reading earlier this month, and local growth plans will be a cornerstone of the place-based approach. We have heard already about the importance of pubs in the local economy. Turning more specifically to the guest beers consultation announced in the Budget, the Chancellor said that the Government will consult on ways to ensure that small brewers can retain and expand their access to UK pubs and maximise drinkers’ choices, including through provisions to enable more guest beers. At this point, let me echo the support for the work done by the Society of Independent Brewers and Associates and the Campaign for Real Ale in championing beer drinkers’ choice and pursuing the case for more independently produced beer in pubs. We will work closely with both those organisations, but also with the wider hospitality sector, to identify barriers to market access for small brewers and how they might be addressed. I want to ensure that we have a clear understanding of the current position, and of what interventions may be necessary and the impact of those interventions. We want to find the right solutions to help small brewers gain access to the market, but to do that we will need to understand all the issues and ensure that any interventions are proportionate, that they address the problems, and that they do not result in unintended consequences. For instance, we will want to develop a good understanding of the extent to which tied tenants use existing flexibilities, by, for example, buying beer from small brewers through their pub companies on payment of a tied release fee. We will want to understand whether managed and retail pub chains could or do offer local beers, to understand the scope for increasing the provision of local beers in other licensed premises such as restaurants and hotels; and to understand the barriers preventing local brewers from gaining access to more pubs, and the reasons for those barriers. There are a range of issues that we will want to consider as part of the consultation. I can respond to my hon. Friend’s questions about what we would consider by saying that we are ruling nothing out at this stage, and that we intend to take a holistic view of the sector. The next statutory review of the pubs code is due to take place next year, but it is only one part of the picture, as it applies to only about a fifth of all pubs in England and Wales. As has been mentioned, there is to be an interesting development in Scotland, whose pubs code will include a guest beer provision. That does not necessarily mean that the provision will automatically be transported to England and Wales, but it also does not mean that we would not be interested to see how it pans out—although, as it will not be introduced until March 2025 at the earliest, we will need a bit of time to understand how it works. We will be able to consider that as part of the consultation, and we will, of course, consult formally on all the options available to us to increase small brewers’ access to the market. It is important for us to get a handle on the complexities of the market before we undertake the consultation. We will work with SIBA and CAMRA and will engage with a range of stakeholders in the pubs and wider hospitality sectors before consulting on options. In response to the questions about when this will happen, I can say that we will try to get on with it as soon as we can, but we do want to undertake that work before launching the formal consultation. We understand the points that have been made and the good intentions behind the suggestions that we have heard, but we want to ensure that this works for the industry as a whole. Let me end by thanking my hon. Friend for initiating her first Adjournment debate. I look forward to working with her on these issues in the coming months, and I will certainly be taking up her offer of a drink—although, owing to diary constraints, I will probably do so on premises closer to the Chamber than to her constituency. Question put and agreed to.

• 12 Nov 2024 · Pubs Code: Guest Beers · Hansard source

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  May I start by extending my own congratulations? I also congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (Ms Minns) on securing this debate and on a very engaging and well-informed speech. It took us through an interesting period in her constituency’s history. I was unaware of the nationalisation of pubs in Carlisle. If that is a suggestion that she wishes to put forward for our next manifesto, she will be aware of the policy-making processes and how to do that. Unfortunately, at this stage I cannot confirm that we have any plans to nationalise pubs—that probably will not come as a surprise to anyone. Before I go on to address my hon. Friend’s points, I will say a little more about the industry more generally, because it plays a critical role in supporting local communities in every corner of the UK. The interest that we have had in this debate shows how important pubs are. They are not just any other local business; they are a part of our history, culture and heritage, and they are a huge employer. The wider hospitality sector employs around 2.2 million people.

• 12 Nov 2024 · Draft Radio Equipment (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2024 · Hansard source

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  I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Radio Equipment (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2024. It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Betts. The draft regulations, which were laid before the House on 9 October, will implement common charger measures in Northern Ireland. In particular, USB-C will become the common charging point for a range of portable electrical devices that require wired charging. The instrument is expected to have limited impact in practice. Many manufacturers have already moved to USB-C to continue to supply the European Union market and, as a result, USB-C has effectively become the industry default in Europe—I am sure Members are at this moment looking at their chargers and phones to see whether they have already moved to USB-C. Industry tells us that it is using USB-C for the whole of the UK to avoid supply chain complexity. Devices that comply with common charger requirements will also be able to be legally placed on the GB market, so we consider it highly likely that the same devices will be available across the whole UK. The common charger measures aim to reduce environmental waste, increase consumer convenience and save money for consumers, as they will not need to buy separate chargers for each device. We consider that it could help businesses and deliver consumer and environmental benefits, if we were to introduce a similar standardised requirement across the UK. Accordingly, we have launched a call for evidence on that issue. The implementation of common charger measures in Northern Ireland also ensures our compliance with international law, which facilitates Northern Ireland’s continued unique dual access to the UK internal market and the EU single market. I will set out a bit of the background. The radio equipment directive 2014 established a framework of regulatory requirements for specific categories of electrical and electronic equipment that is placed on the EU market or put into service in the EU. When we were in the EU, the UK’s Radio Equipment Regulations 2017 implemented that directive into domestic law on a UK-wide basis. In November 2022, the EU formally adopted the common charger directive, which amended the radio equipment directive. The EU common charger directive requires, among other things, a common charging solution based on USB-C for smartphones and certain other portable electronic devices—there is a full list in the regulations—that use wired charging. That will be implemented from December 2024 and for laptops from April 2026. To provide for its continued unique dual access to the UK internal market and the EU single market, certain EU legislation continues to apply in Northern Ireland under the terms of the Windsor framework, including the EU radio equipment directive. The instrument will therefore amend the 2017 regulations to implement the latest changes in Northern Ireland, enabling them to be legally enforced. This instrument introduces new regulatory requirements for specific categories of electrical and electronic equipment that use wired charging and are placed on the Northern Ireland market. It amends the 2017 regulations to provide for simplification, whereby USB-C will be the common charging port, meaning that one charger will work for multiple devices, bringing cost savings and environmental benefits. The instrument will standardise fast charging technology, meaning that the charging speed is the same when using any compatible charger for a device. The instrument will also introduce the unbundling of the sale of a charger, meaning that consumers will have the option, when purchasing a new device, of whether to buy a charger alongside it. That will hopefully reduce electronic waste and costs for the consumer. There will also be additional visual and written information about charging characteristics, the power that the device requires and whether it supports fast charging, thereby improving the information available to consumers. That will help consumers to understand whether their existing chargers meet the requirements of new devices and help consumers to select compatible chargers. The common charger measures will apply to certain categories of handheld devices, including smartphones that use wired charging from 28 December this year and to laptops from 28 April 2026. Offences will be amended to cover the common charger requirements that I mentioned, including to ensure that consumers are offered the choice of purchasing specific categories of electrical and electronic equipment without a charging device if they wish, and that equipment is accompanied by visual information showing whether a charging device is included. I assure hon. Members that enforcement authorities will continue to take a proportionate approach to compliance and enforcement activities in accordance with the regulator’s code. In almost all cases, we expect that by working with and supporting businesses, compliance will be achieved without the need for recourse to criminal penalties. The Northern Ireland Department of Justice has confirmed that it considers that the offences provided for by the instrument are consistent and proportionate and will not have any negative impact on the criminal justice system in Northern Ireland. Officials in the Office for Product Safety and Standards will provide industry guidance to ensure that businesses have all the information they need on how to comply with the new requirements, and they will liaise with Northern Ireland district councils, which are responsible for enforcing the radio equipment regulations in Northern Ireland, ensuring that they have all the necessary information to do that. With USB-C charging effectively becoming the industry default, my view is that this measure could help UK businesses, if we provide regulatory certainty, and that consumer and environmental benefits could be delivered by introducing similar requirements across the whole of the UK, which is why we have launched the call for evidence. We expect the instrument to bring consumer and environmental benefits to Northern Ireland. It also ensures our compliance with international law in relation to Northern Ireland’s continuing dual access. I commend the draft regulations to the Committee.

• 12 Nov 2024 · Draft Radio Equipment (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2024 · Hansard source

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  First of all, I welcome the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for West Worcestershire, to her place, and I hope that we can work constructively across the Chamber. I welcome the comments that she made in support of the draft regulations. She made an important reference to our drawers and how many different chargers we all have in them. We can all see on a personal level why this change might well be a good thing for all consumers. I assure her that we are acting independently of the European Union, and are not blindly following its diktat. We are in the middle of a call for evidence on this subject, and the industry response has been that this was a direction in which it was travelling anyway. I assure her that we will consider all responses before we make a final decision. The hon. and learned Member for North Antrim made an impassioned speech mainly on constitutional issues and the application of the Windsor framework, which is the legal remit within which we are discussing the regulations. He said that he was not particularly concerned about the subject matter. I do not know whether he has had any constituents raise the issue with him, but I can assure him that we have worked closely with the relevant officials in Northern Ireland, and indeed, to pick up on the contribution from the hon. Member for South Antrim, local authorities in Northern Ireland on the application of the regulations. The impact assessment from the EU indicated that this would have a de minimis effect on the market, as the industry had already moved towards it. That has been echoed in the conversations that we have had, so an impact assessment would not have revealed anything that would be of significance today. Question put and agreed to.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Sectoral Collective Bargaining · Hansard source

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  If the shadow Minister is complaining about the state of the adult social care sector, he should look to his own party and how the sector was left to rot for 14 years. The impact assessment says that the overall cost to employers will be 0.4% overall and, as the economic analysis says, the make work pay package will help to raise living standards across the country and create opportunities for all. I think 0.4% is a fantastic achievement to get such a deal. If he does not want to support improved working conditions for people, an end to fire and rehire and better maternity protections, he should continue to vote against the Employment Rights Bill, but I do not think his constituents will thank him for that.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Sectoral Collective Bargaining · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend is right to say that there is plenty of evidence worldwide that collective bargaining improves terms and conditions and the overall vitality of the economy, but we must start somewhere. About 5% of the entire working population are employed in adult social care, and with a 25% turnover rate and rampant abuse of zero-hours contracts and the minimum wage laws, we felt that that sector needed the most attention first. We must make a concerted effort to drive up working conditions, because those who work in that area have been undervalued and underappreciated for far too long, and that has to change. We must focus on getting it right in adult social care, and we will see where that takes us.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Sectoral Collective Bargaining · Hansard source

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  I have to educate the hon. Member on what trade unions do. ASLEF is not a union in the adult social care sector, which is what we are talking about here. We want to work on a tripartite basis—business and workers, together with the Government—to get terms and conditions right. Given that we had the lowest increase in living standards on record under the Conservative Government, I would have thought that he would want to support that too.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Sectoral Collective Bargaining · Hansard source

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  The Government are committed to strengthening the collective voices of workers and restoring the principle that work should always pay. That is why we introduced the Employment Rights Bill, which will restore the school support staff negotiating body and introduce a framework for a fair pay agreement in adult social care. Combined with other measures in the Bill, that will empower workers, unions and employers to come together to negotiate fair pay, terms and conditions.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Make Work Pay Programme · Hansard source

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  I find it incredible that the Opposition quote French-style labour laws, because when they introduced the minimum services legislation, they always held up France as the example of where that works already. I wish they would make their minds up. The implication behind the question about trade union funding says rather more about their attitude to how legislation is made in this country than ours. We do things because we believe in them. If he looks carefully at what the OBR is saying, £1,400 into people’s pockets as a result of the national living wage increase is a fantastic achievement that we should all be proud of.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Make Work Pay Programme · Hansard source

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  Absolutely. We are determined to ensure that the particular sectors that my hon. Friend mentioned, where low pay and insecurity are rife, will benefit. We are working closely with businesses and employers across the spectrum to ensure that we get the proposals right because, for too long, insecurity and low pay have been rife in the UK economy. That has to change.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Make Work Pay Programme · Hansard source

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  As the Chancellor announced yesterday, the national living wage will rise to £12.21 an hour, meaning that a full-time worker can earn an extra £1,400 a year. We have also announced the stopping of the use of minimum service levels and tackled late payments for the self-employed. Of course, we have now introduced the Employment Rights Bill, which will raise living standards across the country and provide better support for businesses engaged in good practice. It also makes good on our promise to the British people that we will now make work pay.

• 31 Oct 2024 · E-bike Battery Fires · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Manufacturers must already ensure that products are safe and provide instructions for safe use, including safe charging. I pay tribute to the London Fire Brigade for the work it is doing on this issue. Unfortunately, as we have heard, there are far too many fires. That is why we launched our awareness campaign last week. We are hoping, through the Product Regulation and Metrology Bill, to make sure we have powers to keep up with technological developments and ensure that e-bikes can be sold safely to consumers in the UK.

• 31 Oct 2024 · E-bike Battery Fires · Hansard source

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  The Office for Product Safety and Standards within my Department has been working across Government and industry to protect consumers and understand the causes of any safety issues. That has included giving consumers clear information that enables them to purchase, use and charge products safely; assessing the compliance of manufacturers and importers to ensure that products are safe when placed on the market; and a programme of work to address the sale of non-compliant products available through online marketplaces, including e-bikes and their batteries. Last week, I visited the OPSS’s Teddington laboratories, where we launched the Department’s new “Buy Safe, Be Safe” consumer campaign.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Topical Questions · Hansard source

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  I would be delighted to meet my hon. Friend. Under the “Get Britain Working” plan, more disabled people and people with health conditions will be supported to enter and stay in work, and I am happy to discuss with her how we can achieve that aim.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Topical Questions · Hansard source

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  I gently point out to the hon. Lady that that represents a 0.4% increase on businesses’ total costs—a small price to pay for what the impact assessment says “will strengthen working conditions for the lowest-paid and most vulnerable in the labour market, increasing fairness and equality across Britain. It will have significant positive impacts on workers who are trapped in insecure work, face discrimination, or suffer from unscrupulous employer behaviour like ‘fire and refire’ practices”. If the hon. Lady does not support that, I am sure that she can talk to her constituents about why.

• 31 Oct 2024 · Topical Questions · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend is absolutely right that we need to get more people back into work, and need to support them to return. In the Employment Rights Bill, we are looking to increase the scope of sick pay to include people below the lower earnings limit, and to introduce payments from day one. We have no plans to increase the rate of statutory sick pay, but when we get the reforms through, we will no doubt look at how we can reform it for the better. My Department for Work and Pensions colleagues will consider that in due course.

• 23 Oct 2024 · Paternity Leave and Pay · Hansard source

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  I am sorry but I do not have time to take interventions. We recognise that parental leave and pay entitlement, such as paternity leave and pay, play a key role in that balance. It is an important of the lives of parents and children for the parent to be able to take time away from work when their child is born—or first placed, as we recognise this debate covers other arrangements—so that partners can provide support and families can be together for the first time. We know the parental system needs improvement. Hon. Members can look back on previous debates, where it is clearly on the record that Labour in opposition felt that the parental system was in need of reform. I will set out some of the changes we plan to make in relation to the Employment Rights Bill. As has been said, there have been some modest improvements in arrangements in the last 12 months. On 6 April, changes were introduced that allow parents to take leave and pay in two non-consecutive weeks, at any point in the first year after the birth or adoption of their child, and to give shorter notice for leave periods. That was a move forward but we want to go further. The Employment Rights Bill will make paternity leave a day one right. Currently, parents are eligible for leave only if they have been employed in their job for 26 weeks, by 15 weeks before the baby is due. We will remove the requirement for a continuity of service condition for paternity leave. That will allow eligible employees to give notice of their intention to take that entitlement, from day one in the job. It will make paternity leave accessible to all employees, including those who may have low job security and low continuity of service, not only those who are able to reach the current set qualifying periods. We believe this measure will bring tens of thousands more parents into scope for the entitlement, meaning that many more families will benefit from protected time off. We will make other changes to paternity leave to make it more flexible for parents. We will remove the restriction requiring paternity leave and pay to be taken before shared parental leave and pay. Currently, when shared parental leave and pay is taken, fathers lose their right to take any paternity leave and pay that they have not already taken. We think that is creating unintended consequences, and we will remove that restriction in order to provide the flexibility for employees to take advantage of the different types of leave available to them at the moment to care for their child in whatever order works for them and their family. That will also remove the risk that parents will lose their entitlement to take paternity leave and pay by misunderstanding the restrictions. As several hon. Members said, it is a complicated process; I had not realised that there was a cottage industry in completing forms for shared parental leave. That is clearly something we need to consider in due course. We are making other commitments to improve parental leave. We are going to make unpaid parental leave a day one right. The provision gives an employed parent the right to take up to four weeks of leave per year for their child, unless the employer agrees to more. The maximum leave per child is 18 weeks in total. Currently, an employee must have worked in their job for a year to qualify for that entitlement. The Employment Rights Bill will remove that continuity of service requirement, and regulations will then enable parents to give notice of their intention to take that leave on the first day in a new job. We are very keen on having day one rights for employees in a whole range of areas. That, alongside the changes to paternity leave and pay, will increase flexibility and solidify and enhance economic activity for employed parents. Evidence shows that people who move jobs get wage increases. The current system of employees waiting up to a year for parental leave entitlements when they change employer means that parents are put off seeking new jobs that could have boosted their family income at a time when they need it more than ever. We also know that the whole parental leave system does not support working families. As Members have said, we have committed to a review of the parental leave system. Inevitably, we will not be able to do that without looking at the questions raised today about how paternity leave and pay work. It is clearly part of a larger interconnected web. The review will be undertaken separately to the Employment Rights Bill, but work on planning for its delivery is already under way. I want to give my hon. Friend the Member for Telford an opportunity to respond, so I will bring my speech to a close. We are listening carefully to the many representations we have heard. Our plan to make work pay is a core part of our Government’s mission to grow the economy, raise living standards across the country and create opportunities for all. It will help more people stay in work, improve job security and boost living standards. The whole approach we are taking will benefit families across the board. It will benefit workers and businesses beyond the important specific interventions we have talked about today. We have a very important package of measures that I am proud to be a part of delivering in this new Government.

• 23 Oct 2024 · Paternity Leave and Pay · Hansard source

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  It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair this afternoon, Mr Pritchard. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Telford (Shaun Davies) on securing today’s debate, which has been very well attended. I did not think that we would see such unanimity, but there is clearly a fresh view in the House. We would not have had this sort of turnout or this kind of debate in previous Parliaments, but there is clearly a mood among newly elected Members—and of course among older, more experienced Members—for change. I would reference all the contributions, but we will not have time for that. As always, I am grateful to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and my hon. Friends the Members for Walthamstow (Ms Creasy), for Livingston (Gregor Poynton), for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Daniel Francis), for Crawley (Peter Lamb), for Makerfield (Josh Simons), for East Renfrewshire (Blair McDougall), for Hitchin (Alistair Strathern), for Congleton (Mrs Russell), for Wolverhampton North East (Mrs Brackenridge), for Gloucester (Alex McIntyre), for Mid Derbyshire (Jonathan Davies), for High Peak (Jon Pearce), and the hon. Members for Didcot and Wantage (Olly Glover) and for Lewes (James MacCleary) for their contributions. I think that shows that across the nation there is great interest and appetite for reform. Apologies if I did not catch everyone’s contribution. I will make a couple of points. The hon. Member for Henley and Thame (Freddie van Mierlo), and I think a couple of other Members, talked about the fact that those working in the gig economy and those who are self-employed do not qualify for any paternity leave. Clearly, we have set out in our “Next Steps” document on employment law reform a review of the worker status and self-employed issues. My hon. Friend the Member for Congleton raised, as I would expect her to, the very important points about maternity discrimination. She will know that there are measures in the Employment Rights Bill to strengthen protections against dismissal for those on maternity leave. I cannot continue without mentioning and congratulating in advance my hon. Friend the Member for High Peak on his impending fatherhood for the third time. My hon. Friend the Member for Telford was absolutely right that this issue is about not just the father’s role, but the wider role in society and the bond between father and child. He talked about his research into how Government Departments had handled the matter. It is fair to say that, as a newly elected Government, we want to see Government being an exemplar of best practice as an employer. He expanded our often-used phrase of being “pro-worker, pro-business” to add “pro-family”. I have no difficulty with that in this context. The Government are committed to ensuring that employed parents receive the best possible support for their work and home lives. Our plan to make work pay will ensure that there is more flexibility and security for working families. Workers must be supported to work, while balancing the essential ingredients of their wider family life, whether that is raising children, improving their own wellbeing or looking after a loved one with a long-term health condition.

• 22 Oct 2024 · Whistleblowing Protections · Hansard source

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  It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair this afternoon, Sir Mark. I start by offering my triple congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Gareth Snell): first, congratulations on returning to this place—it is good to see him back—secondly, congratulations on securing the debate; and thirdly, congratulations on being appointed chair of the all-party group for whistleblowing, which I am sure he will lead with distinction. We have heard a number of very important and passionate contributions today. I will do my best to sum them up, but it is fair to say that we are looking forward to working with all Members across the board on this very important topic. Before addressing some of those points, I will start by discussing the current whistleblowing framework. As Members have said, it is essentially about employment protection, and that is the reason why I am here, as the Minister for Employment Rights, to respond on the Government’s behalf. The protections were introduced by the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998, which amended the Employment Rights Act 1996. The legislation was intended to provide a route for workers to make disclosures of information that they reasonably believed were in the public interest and tended to show a relevant failure or someone covering up a relevant failure. Those relevant failures could include criminal offences, the endangerment of health and safety, causing damage to the environment, a miscarriage of justice or a breach of any legal obligation. Disclosures need to be made in line with the requirements of the legislation, usually to a worker’s employer or lawyer, or a prescribed person. As Members may know, there are more than 90 different prescribed persons under the legislation to whom relevant failures can be reported. They are usually regulators, such as the Equalities and Human Rights Commission and the Financial Conduct Authority. I will not go through every single prescribed person today, but most have a statutory obligation to report on the disclosures that they receive and to publish the reports annually. Since the reporting requirements came into effect, there has been an increase in the number of disclosures that are made to prescribed persons. The volume of disclosures is around 50,000 a year and, as we can probably tell from the contributions today, they are highly concentrated in the health, public administration and financial and insurance sectors. The reports summarise the actions that a prescribed person has taken, but there is variation in how that information is protected. As we have discussed, workers have, under the law, a right not to be dismissed or subjected to a detriment as a result of making a protected disclosure, and there is recourse to an employment tribunal. The number of employment tribunal complaints under the jurisdiction for protected disclosure in each year since 2017-18 has increased, reaching 3,128 in 2020-21. That is the latest year for which a full dataset is available. But enough of the overview. We need to talk about some of the important contributions that we have heard from Members. This debate is really about how whistleblowing affects individuals. We know that it can fundamentally and irrevocably damage, indeed end, that relationship with the employer. We know there are reasons why people will not speak up: some are in senior positions and fear for their career or their reputation, some may be at the other end of the spectrum and fear insecurity and power imbalances that may make it difficult to speak up, and some may have a link to the organisation but may not be covered under the legislation. I would like to make a few comments about the contributions in this debate. I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Redditch (Chris Bloore) for contributing. I am sure if he had come in earlier, his speech would have covered many of the points that had already been made, but that is the lottery of Westminster Hall, and I am sure there will be many opportunities for him to speak earlier in other debates. He referenced a number of Members’ speeches. It was particularly pleasing to hear from my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Mrs Sarah Russell), who brought her professional experience to bear today. She made an interesting suggestion about the use of “some other substantial reason” as a potentially fair reason for dismissing someone in whistleblowing cases. We probably need to look at the use of “some other substantial reason”, as it is likely that it gets overused. However, as she will be aware, the current Employment Rights Bill has enough in it for us to be getting on with. She made an interesting suggestion in respect of the potential use of the Fair Work Agency here, and that is something we will bear in mind. The Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for Wokingham (Clive Jones), highlighted some of the legal issues under the current legislation, including the question whether someone is within scope, the hurdles that they have to overcome to qualify for protection and the public interest test. Those are all things that we want to look at in a broader sense, if we get around to a review of the legislation. I take his point about officials in the Department for Work and Pensions, but I hope that this Administration would want to be an exemplar of best practice, and we would want people to feel confident that they can speak out if they see a wrong or an injustice. It was a pleasure, as always, to hear from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), in his customary place—I may have swapped positions, but he remains a permanent fixture over there. He spoke very movingly about his friend Brian and the great personal cost of his efforts to expose wrongdoing. Brian’s resilience came through in the hon. Member’s description of his fight. As he said, it was about doing the right thing, and his message was that, “you are not alone when you do the right thing.” We should be sending that message to anyone who thinks about blowing the whistle. Of course, the matter is devolved to Northern Ireland, but that message should ring out across the whole of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland. My hon. Friend the Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Dame Meg Hillier) raised some specific issues about the Department of Health and Social Care and her constituent Sarah McMahon. I am sorry to hear of the three years of personal difficulties Sarah McMahon has suffered as a result of doing the right thing. Unfortunately, too many organisations make it very difficult for individuals who blow the whistle. I understand that the Department for Health and Social Care has concluded a review of the statutory duty of candour, and it has issued a call for evidence, which I think is ongoing. I take her message of frustration about the length of time that these things take, and I will pass that message back to the Department. However, my hon. Friend made the important point that some organisations have got it right and encourage people to speak up when they see a wrong. There are some very good examples, including the aviation industry, which is a particular exemplar of that. It is the standard that we should be aiming for. My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central, who opened the debate, said that the law looks at how things happen after the disclosure, and always through the prism of an employment relationship. That was a good analysis of where we are and perhaps why there are shortcomings in some of the legislation. I agree that this is about the law giving people the confidence to speak up. I am sure we will return to some of the things we hope to do on that.

• 22 Oct 2024 · Whistleblowing Protections · Hansard source

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  indicated assent.

• 22 Oct 2024 · Whistleblowing Protections · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend makes a very fair point. I suspect that a week ahead of the Budget we will not get the kind of investment he would like to see. He talked about the legislation, focusing on existing employment relationships and the broader ambit of employment. The legislation was probably framed in that way in the first place because that is where the biggest power imbalance lies: between an employer and their employee. We can consider how we would broaden this out, but we will bring in particular measures with our Employment Rights Bill. Hon. Members will be aware that Second Reading took place last night, when we made some specific announcements on our overall package. The Bill is the biggest upgrade in workers’ rights in a generation, and in it we will address specific issues about whistleblowing on sexual harassment. The Trades Union Congress states that 58% of women have been sexually harassed at work. That is a staggering, appalling figure that must be tackled, and it is one of the reasons why we want to improve people’s ability to ring the alarm bell when sexual harassment occurs. The Bill will require employers to create and maintain workplaces and working conditions free from harassment, including by third parties. It will strengthen the legal duty of employers to take all reasonable steps to prevent sexual harassment before it starts, and it will enable regulations to specify steps that an employer must take to protect their employees from sexual harassment to ensure that effective steps are taken. It also includes protections for whistleblowers and will make clear that sexual harassment can be the basis for a protected disclosure, which is one of the most important steps we can take to make workplaces safer. Workers who make a protected disclosure will then have legal recourse if their employer subjects them to a detriment for speaking up. My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central mentioned, as did several other Members, the possibility of an office for the whistleblower. There were a number of suggestions about the potential remit and role that it could have. Clearly, the cost and precise functions and powers of that would need careful consideration, particularly in how it would relate to current regulators. The point he made about the resources of regulators is relevant to that. There would also have to be some consideration given to how it would exist as an independent body from Government. I must disappoint my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton by saying that the pledge to create the office did not make it into our final manifesto, but that is not to say we are ruling it out forever and a day. We will consider it as we look at a broader review of the whistleblowing framework. On that point, I will address the remarks made by the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Orpington, about the review initiated by the previous Government, which was intended to assess the effectiveness of the whistleblowing framework against its original objectives. As he rightly pointed out, that review was not released before the general election. It certainly does not seem appropriate for us to let that work go to waste; I will talk to my officials about how and when we can release that information, but I see no reason why we should not do so. It will be a starting point for further work in this area. The number of issues raised today shows that the appetite for reform in this area is much broader than the review commissioned under the previous Government recognised. Of course, other measures are due to be enacted in the next 12 months, but we can do more to ensure people feel confident when they speak out. As several Members said, the King’s Speech made clear that we will deliver on our manifesto commitment to implement a Hillsborough law to introduce a legal duty of candour on public servants and authorities. The Prime Minister made clear that that Bill will enter Parliament before the next anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster. We believe it will be a catalyst for a change of culture in the public sector by improving transparency and accountability where public services have failed. It will help to address the unacceptable defensive culture that is prevalent across too much of the public sector. It has been said several times that the NHS is one of the worst examples of that; certainly, from my experience, there is a hard focus on trying to justify actions, rather than get to the root of the complaint. Bishop James Jones’s report made it clear that those things have to change, not just in the NHS, but across the whole public sector. That Bill will be an important starting point in changing the culture both in the public sector and across the country. We all want it to improve so that whistleblowers have the confidence to speak out and have the assurance that, if something happens to them as a result, they will be protected and supported.

• 5 Sept 2024 · Employment Rights · Hansard source

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  I thank the shadow Secretary of State for his question. I just remind him that he has to direct the question to the Minister responding—I am sure we will get there in the end. I also remind the shadow Secretary of State that during the general election, the front page of The Times had 120 businesses supporting the Labour party in full knowledge of our plans to make work pay. We are consulting regularly and frequently—almost on a daily basis—with businesses about how the plans will work. I am afraid that the shadow Secretary of State has spent the summer putting out scaremongering statements about what this all means. In fact, the only statement he made over the summer on which I agreed with him was that his party deserved to lose the general election.

• 5 Sept 2024 · Employment Rights · Hansard source

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  We have already taken a number of steps to improve employment rights in this country. We have written to the Low Pay Commission to ask it to end the discriminatory age bands, so that all adults will be paid the same minimum wage rates. We have also asked it to look at including the cost of living when setting future wage rates, and have announced that we will repeal the unconscionable and unworkable Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Act 2023, but there will be more. We will transform workers’ rights in this country, and will introduce the employment rights Bill within 100 days of taking office, as we promised.

• 5 Sept 2024 · Employment Rights · Hansard source

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  Again, I have to point out that I am not the Secretary of State—perhaps one day. We heard all these arguments 20 years ago with the minimum wage. Conservative Members were wrong about that, and they are wrong about this. I just hope they are a bit quicker to come round to realising that this country is going to prosper with improved workers’ rights, working in partnership with businesses to improve the economy for the benefit of everyone.