Jonathan Reynolds MP: speeches 2024

Speeches

• 9 Sept 2024 · Post Office Horizon: Redress · Hansard source

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  Members may know that Capture was the precursor to the Horizon software. It is of concern to us, and we are investigating. The forensic accountants appointed to look into the issue are due to report fairly soon, and as soon as we have their findings, we will be able to update the House on steps that may be necessary.

• 9 Sept 2024 · Post Office Horizon: Redress · Hansard source

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  I thought that the hon. Member might recognise the words from Isiah that I used in the statement. The failure that goes to the heart of what we are talking about today is not just about the reliance on computer systems over the testimony of people on the frontline; it is also about the culture of organisations and how government operates. We will definitely turn a page on all of that, but there are Members in the Chamber who, like me, have been here not just for infected blood and the Grenfell statement last week, but for Hillsborough and Bloody Sunday. We must reflect on what has been a very difficult set of findings. I think that we can commit to making sure that we learn the lessons from them, and take them forward. That is the challenge for all of us who believe that we are here to do good, and to do as I said in the statement. There is more to do on that, but we can move in the right direction, and that is certainly what I and my Government Ministers will do.

• 9 Sept 2024 · Post Office Horizon: Redress · Hansard source

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  I understand the situation, and the need to have different redress schemes to correct specific problems. I understand the constituent’s sentiments, as described by my hon. Friend. I would like to make sure that we are doing everything we can to provide the answers in every case. If she writes to me about that case, I will look into it personally and advise her, so that she can advise her constituent to make sure that, as far as possible, we give the right advice.

• 9 Sept 2024 · Post Office Horizon: Redress · Hansard source

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  I am grateful to the hon. Member for his response, and for the tone and collaboration that we tried to model when we were sitting in opposite places in this Chamber. I believe that helped advance what was a difficult piece of legislation to put on the statute book, particularly during a wash-up process, but was the only real vehicle for delivering what we all wanted to see. He has asked me a number of questions; all are absolutely reasonable, and I am happy to respond to them. In a situation where someone has already received a top-up to £75,000, the hon. Member is right to say that the appeals scheme would not be available. It is a choice between the two best methods of redress and satisfaction for the postmaster. I recognise what the hon. Member has said—that, given the issues with the speed of delivering redress, having that system clogged up would not be satisfactory to anyone—but I think that both options represent reasonable ways forward for people who are in that position. The hon. Member asked specifically about the remit of the appeals scheme, and I have listened to what he said. The reason we are announcing today that we will take this scheme forward, but will then consult with postmasters to make sure the eligibility criteria are correct—he asked about the timeline, which is just a matter of months—is to make sure that we do not have to revisit the scheme, and can all be satisfied that crucially, postmasters themselves have confidence in it. That is the intention, so I am grateful to the hon. Member for his comments about the remit of the scheme. The hon. Member asked about legal representation. Yes, that is part of the scheme, again learning lessons from where we have been in the past. As he knows, most of the schemes have now been adjusted to reflect that, but I absolutely take his point about new announcements. I want to be clear about the difficulty that has existed with the Horizon convictions redress scheme. To update the House, I will give the hon. Member the figures: so far, 180 letters have gone out from the Ministry of Justice. Including those letters and the people who have registered with the Government who perhaps have not all received a letter yet, there are now 276 claimants. I will make the appeal again: while we are doing everything we can with Ministry of Justice colleagues to make sure those letters go out, people can proactively register with the Government. To be frank, this has been a frustration. When the hon. Member and I were having our conversations when we sat in different places in the Chamber, neither of us perhaps knew the state of the database and the records, and—having passed the legislation—the frustrations we would face in getting to people. However, doing so is clearly integral to sorting this out. Finally, the hon. Member asked about the scheme reviewer. If I may, I will come back to him on that; I will write to him to tell him the up-to-date situation. In summary, I say again that we will work with all parties and all postmasters to get redress at pace, and to learn the lessons from where things have not gone well in the past, to make sure new announcements carry the confidence of the people who really need to have confidence in them.

• 9 Sept 2024 · Post Office Horizon: Redress · Hansard source

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  I think my hon. Friend will have heard in my earlier answers that we have chosen to deliver this scheme in-house in the Department for Business and Trade, reflecting the concerns he is reasonably expressing. To command people’s confidence, they want to see the schemes not only set up, but delivering. That is why the updates to the House on how we are progressing under each scheme are so important, and I commit to doing them regularly.

• 9 Sept 2024 · Post Office Horizon: Redress · Hansard source

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  I very much recognise the conversation that my hon. Friend has had with her constituent, and her need and desire to progress that claim. The issue is about ensuring that the records are accurate. Cross-referencing between Ministry of Justice databases and court documents is proceeding apace. If her constituent has not yet had a letter and needs to register their credentials, they can do so, but I assure my hon. Friend that this is of maximum priority.

• 9 Sept 2024 · Post Office Horizon: Redress · Hansard source

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  I agree with the hon. Member. That is a crucial and important question. I welcome Fujitsu acknowledging its moral responsibility in relation to these matters. I understand that it is participating fully with the Sir Wyn Williams inquiry. We will need that inquiry to conclude. We should not pre-empt that in any way and take any decisions before that process has been gone through properly, given that we all support it. Accountability will flow from the inquiry. It will be an important step and it will affect many, many organisations that have been part of this story. Fujitsu will clearly be one of them.

• 9 Sept 2024 · Post Office Horizon: Redress · Hansard source

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  The hon. Gentleman will have heard my answers. He would surely agree that to get things wrong with these cases would be a terrible problem. Some of the errors and the problems that have been caused have been a frustration, but I want to assure him. I think it is better, in matters relating to this scandal, that it is the Department for Business and Trade, given the interests of Members, that provides the updates on these matters. However, I can assure him that work is proceeding at pace, and people can proactively register their credentials to ensure that there is no delay if they are in a position where they know they are one of the wronged parties.

• 9 Sept 2024 · Post Office Horizon: Redress · Hansard source

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  I recognise very much what my hon. Friend says. As I said in my earlier answers, there is an absolute need to not just provide redress but learn lessons for the future of the Post Office and all institutions of the state. Crucially, we must ensure that a business model is in place that rewards postmasters with a decent return for providing an essential service, in an organisation that supports their frontline activities and gives them the income and the prosperity that they deserve for that.

• 9 Sept 2024 · Post Office Horizon: Redress · Hansard source

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  I recognise very much what the right hon. Member is saying. I have had personal friends who were directly affected by this issue. Even though I was their MP as well as their friend, they did not feel able to tell me about it because they were so concerned about the impact on their reputation—they could not even tell a friend who was a Member of Parliament, even though the issue was clearly affecting their lives very significantly. I am sure that, like me, she has had situations where there is one provider of postal services in a relatively rural area—I represent Greater Manchester as it gets out towards rural Derbyshire—and people want the service to continue, but for various business reasons the provider is moving on. It is sometimes hard to find someone willing to take that business on, not just because of the scandal, but because of the business model. I assure her that the work we are already doing is about the future and recognising that, and making sure we have people in charge who recognise that that has to change. It is going to be a substantial piece of work for me and the Minister, but it is essential. We could not just provide redress for this scandal, without looking to the future and making sure we get this right.

• 9 Sept 2024 · Post Office Horizon: Redress · Hansard source

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  I very much agree. This is a major scandal, and we must ensure that the wider lessons and the wider lack of trust, which he correctly mentioned, are addressed in our response. That is fundamental. I have said many times that we might never have discovered the scale of this injustice were it not for the campaigners. That is shocking, and we must all reflect very deeply on that.

• 9 Sept 2024 · Post Office Horizon: Redress · Hansard source

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  I echo the hon. Gentleman’s comments about Marion Fellows and her contribution to the scheme. He asks how satisfied I am. I will not be satisfied until everyone has had redress; it is as straightforward as that. There was a group of about 2,417 claimants under the Horizon shortfall scheme, but following the television drama, a whole range of people who were not aware that they were eligible came forward, which was incredibly positive. I think that over 1,500 people came forward. Indeed, Members may still be finding people who are coming forward because of the awareness that raised. We should be thankful for the power of the arts to get a message out to people. Given the situation, none of us can be satisfied until we can be sure that we have got redress to everyone. That is what this Parliament collectively has to commit to.

• 9 Sept 2024 · Post Office Horizon: Redress · Hansard source

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  I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, who will, I hope, see his work as Chair of the Select Committee reflected in this announcement—specifically, that we are setting the target to issue initial offers to 90% of claims within 40 working days of receiving a full claim. On the point of how that is defined, a full claim is one where, following legal assessment, it is deemed that it does not require any further evidence to assess the claim further. Once that is in, the targets, which his Select Committee rightly called for to make sure redress is delivered at speed, are part of this process.

• 9 Sept 2024 · Post Office Horizon: Redress · Hansard source

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  I am grateful to the hon. Member for that question. Specifically on the figures for the Horizon convictions redress scheme, he is right to say that there are only six claims where interim payments have been made so far, but I can assure him that I would expect that to rise rapidly following the announcement we have made, and I will keep the House informed as to all of that. I agree when he says that redress of this scandal has to link to the future of the Post Office itself. I think he is absolutely right. I mentioned in oral questions last week that I will appear before the inquiry. It is about not just an assurance on the lessons that will be learnt from the inquiry, but how that will affect decisions going forward. Like the hon. Member, I have seen the post office network change a lot in my constituency. I was at the new banking hub in Stalybridge on Friday. I think the public support for the brand and for the people on the frontline is very strong, but the business model, as it stands, is not fit for purpose. Postmasters deliver essential services, but they do not make enough money from those essential services. I think too much of the money they make goes into the centre and does not return to the frontline in a way that is a viable business model for all of our constituencies. The issue of how the Post Office functions as an organisation has to be tied not just culturally to the reforms and redress we are all seeking to deliver, but to the business model.

• 9 Sept 2024 · Post Office Horizon: Redress · Hansard source

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  As I have said in previous answers, we have to understand that that scepticism and concern is valid. The scale of this scandal is so large that people will challenge their Members of Parliament on how they feel about what they may be asked to do, and the risk that that poses to what is still an essential business and provider of services to all our constituents. That is key. I seek to reassure them by recognising the steps and commitment that we have to address, but also the future of a business model that delivers the kind of remuneration and operates in a way that recognises the scale of the failure in the past. If I was a postmaster, I would welcome those words, but I would want to see action. That is the only way we will be able to do that.

• 5 Sept 2024 · Industrial Strategy · Hansard source

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  I welcome the hon. Gentleman and the new shadow ministerial team to their posts. I have sat on those Benches in many questions sessions and understand how it can be at times. Businesses of all sizes overwhelmingly supported the Labour party at the general election. How we behave in government will be exactly how we behaved in opposition, and we will co-design policy to ensure that. There is nothing in what we call the plan to make work pay—the new deal for working people—that is not already in the public domain. We had a manifesto with all that in it. It is important to recognise— [ Interruption. ] There is a bit of chuntering coming from the Opposition Front Bench; again, something that I am not unfamiliar with. Look at the success of businesses in this area. Look at the businesses that already recognise trade unions and that already pay the living wage—look at that success. We are going to raise the employment floor, but it will be to a level above which many UK businesses are already operating. It is important to talk about the really successful things that businesses are doing to make sure that their workforces are treated with dignity and respect and get the living standards and prosperity that Members on this side of the House are all about delivering more of.

• 5 Sept 2024 · Industrial Strategy · Hansard source

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  It is also a pleasure to welcome my hon. Friend to her place, and I thank her for those comments, with which I thoroughly agree. This is what it is all about—good work and good wages in every part of the country. I will work with anyone to deliver that. Her personal story shows the difference that such a policy can make. I often reference, for instance, the difference that Nissan’s investment made to communities in Sunderland. When such investment is made and got right, it delivers long-term benefits for communities and for the UK—more so perhaps than any other policy area. If we want to address, as I do, the UK’s profound regional inequality, policies such as these are so important, so I thoroughly endorse her comments. The industrial strategy is only one part of the growth mission, but it is at the heart of the pro-worker, pro-business agenda not just of my Department, but of the whole Government.

• 5 Sept 2024 · Industrial Strategy · Hansard source

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  The hon. Gentleman is right to say that business is often frustrated by the pace at which the Government can go. We are doing a considerable amount of work on how business interfaces with the Government as a whole, how that is managed as a relationship, and how we can assemble the different parts of the state in the way needed to respond to some of our big investment opportunities. Frankly, in the past, we have often seen the UK miss out, particularly to, for instance, the French. The “Choose France” policy has been fairly successful from their point of view by taking some investments that I believe should have come to the UK. They have got ahead of us. We have to understand that the competitive environment that we are now in is extremely challenging and we have missed out on things. We have to change and get it right and better. I will work with the hon. Gentleman— I have already highlighted the meeting scheduled with my Minister of State—and he makes a fair point that we all recognise has to be addressed.

• 5 Sept 2024 · Industrial Strategy · Hansard source

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  It is lovely to see you in the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker, and it is great to see so much interest in the industrial strategy from my hon. Friends. However, I believe Members in all parts of the House can and should support the strategy, and we will seek to make cross-party arrangements. The need is great. We must improve on the UK’s poor business investment performance, which has been the lowest in the G7 for some time. We must recognise that so much chopping and changing of policy in recent years has been to our detriment. That will come to an end under this Government and this industrial strategy.

• 5 Sept 2024 · Industrial Strategy · Hansard source

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  The hon. Member makes a really important point. We all have common areas of concern about the United Kingdom economy as a whole—the poor productivity since the financial crisis, the level of growth not delivering the living standards and public services that we want, and the low investment figure—but there are also specific challenges in each part of the country. The relationship between national policy, local policy and local leadership is the way to address those issues. The hon. Member is an extremely skilled parliamentarian, and he added on a couple of issues that are clearly beyond the remit of the Department for Business and Trade—he did it very well. On the reset of the relationship with the European Union, there are practical, pragmatic measures that I will ask all Members to support, particularly on the recognition of professional qualifications, which I think could have been part of the deal, and what we are planning for food and agricultural products, if we can be successful in that negotiation. Those are our asks. There will be asks from the other side, and we will have to work with our partners to negotiate these things, but I recognise the hon. Member’s key point: yes, there are UK-wide needs, but there are specific needs in each area, and we have to get them right—for his area, for mine, and for everyone’s present.

• 5 Sept 2024 · Industrial Strategy · Hansard source

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  I genuinely thank the hon. Member for those comments, because I am serious when I say that I believe that industrial strategy should command support across the political spectrum. That is the norm in a lot of comparable countries to ours. I recognise not just the work that he did, but the number of times he did it; he was called back repeatedly by the last Government to do that work. I am often struck by the comments that Lord Willetts made in the Policy Exchange pamphlet about the lack of a supply chain for offshore wind really benefiting Scandinavian economies, rather than ours. There are common areas of interest, and to make this industrial strategy more successful than the very credible approach taken by the Conservative Government when Theresa May was Prime Minister, we need it to last longer, and for it to have consistency and permanence. I know that the advocates and designers of that policy wanted the chance to do that. The strategy must also be cross-departmental. It will be led by my Department, but it cannot be solely my Department that is engaged. I can tell the hon. Member that all my Cabinet colleagues share our objectives and a keenness to make this work. We do not just want strategies put on the shelf for the short or long term; we want the strategy to make a difference in the communities that everyone in the Chamber represents. I welcome that cross-party support.

• 5 Sept 2024 · Industrial Strategy · Hansard source

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  It is also great to see my hon. Friend in her place. I enjoyed working with her in her previous role in local government, and she brings all that expertise and achievement with her to this House. I wish to embed our industrial strategy for the long term. I want to focus it on long-term, sustainable, inclusive and secure growth that will cover many sectors of the economy, as my hon. Friend has mentioned. That will mean the Government having to work in partnership not just with business, but with civil society, trade unions and local and regional leaders in a way, to be frank, that we have not been doing for some years. We will make sure, as she requests, that that is a priority, and is visible in the work that we do.

• 5 Sept 2024 · Industrial Strategy · Hansard source

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  Let me say how wonderful it is to see my hon. Friend back in her place, representing her community and bringing with her even more expertise from the roles that she has held and the work that she has done in her time outside Parliament. It is a key priority for me to ensure that good jobs in the supply chain come with the transition that we all now support. I can tell her not only that we are interested in Air Products, but that my colleague, the Minister of State for Industry, already has a meeting with it scheduled in the next few days, and we look forward to working with my hon. Friend not just on that, but on many issues in the weeks and months to come.

• 5 Sept 2024 · Industrial Strategy · Hansard source

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  It is wonderful to hear a strong and authentic voice from the Black Country making a charge for industrial strategy; I thank my hon. Friend for her comments. The purpose of the industrial strategy is to capture a much greater share of the big international investment cycles, to explain straightforwardly to investors what those are, to provide consistency and to choose sectors. That does not mean the sectors that are not part of the strategy are not important, but is simply because the strategy must have priorities in it. I think my hon. Friend will support our choices, which will be revealed in the forthcoming weeks. Her area will play a major role in the success of the strategy for the whole of the country.

• 5 Sept 2024 · Industrial Strategy · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend is not a new colleague, and her advocacy of the automotive sector, particularly given her constituency interest in Stellantis, is well known and welcome. This was a challenging area, particularly for her constituency, that we inherited. The previous Government had neglected engagement with the business. Since we took office, we have had extensive engagement with Carlos Tavares and the Stellantis team. The journey that the automotive sector has to go on for decarbonisation presents challenges, and there is a challenging picture across all of Europe, but the neglect of the previous Government has ended. Not only am I closely engaged on the issue, as are my ministerial team, but so is the Secretary of State for Transport, particularly in relation to the zero emission vehicle mandate—a key area of policy for the business. We will continue that work, and I will continue to keep my hon. Friend, and any other local MPs, updated, as we have done to date.