Joe Robertson MP: speeches 2025

Speeches

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I agree, and would like to share the hon. Member’s optimism that the Government do intend to make improvements in this area. This debate is a second chance for them to go away, then come back and provide relief to all charities, but particularly those that are operating in what might be called emergency services, because nobody else is doing what those charities are doing. Earlier today I spoke to a journalist who was involved in reporting the criminality and repulsive scandal in Rotherham. He said that when he went there, it was charities that were providing those emergency services—no one else was doing it—yet those are the groups that are having money taken off them in order to fund the Government. Women’s Aid is a conglomerate representing 175 member organisations across England. It says that the national insurance contribution rises will effectively negate gift aid. The Government are giving a tax relief through gift aid and then taking it back through the Budget NIC rises.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I thank the Minister for coming here to address the arguments that have been made, particularly as they were about a set of decisions that were not made by her personally or by her Department. I thank her for assuring Members in this debate that she will go back and make strong representations to her colleagues. There is probably no option other than to do so, given the strength of feeling she has heard today, particularly from Opposition Members. This is not her fault, butthere is no compelling argument that money had to be taken from charities to deliver the Government’s objectives. I urge her to say to the Chancellor, “Please give charities their money back. This is their money—give it back.” Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House has considered the impact of changes to employers’ National Insurance contributions on the charity sector.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I will make a little progress and then come back to the hon. Gentleman. Most charities are suffering as they try to raise charitable funds, yet the Government have decided to take some of those charitable funds for themselves. For charities that support older people, such as Age UK, the simultaneous impact of the withdrawal of winter fuel payments has meant that more people are using their services, and at the same time the Government are taking money off them.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I do agree. It looks like the Government do not understand that healthcare is delivered not only by the NHS, so when they chose to exempt the NHS from the damaging rises, they either did not understand or had disregard for all the other healthcare providers, without which the NHS could not function properly.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I agree with the hon. Member. Broadly speaking, Age UK operates as small charities in individual communities. Age UK in the Isle of Wight, where my constituency is, also faces paying tens of thousands of pounds. On a national scale, that might not seem like much money, but it makes a huge difference at the local level and leads inevitably either to service cuts or to staff cuts. I agree with the hon. Member that no good can come of it.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I agree, although I am perhaps a little more optimistic than the hon. Member. The Government might not make the promise today, but they have an opportunity to go away and provide financial relief to all charities, even if they might not want to admit that in black and white. I congratulate the hon. Member on her Bill. I am grateful to Members who have come to this debate to talk about their constituencies. In my constituency, the local charity Aspire is currently building, for the first time on the Isle of Wight, accommodation specifically for vulnerable women—and now the Government want £27,000 from it. Community Action does amazing things on the Isle of Wight, and provides a lot of contracted services for the Isle of Wight council; the Government want £45,000 from it. The employment allowance will offset £5,000 of that. The Government will tell us that is what they are giving back, but those are very small returns on the money they are taking. I could say much more about other charities that operate in sports, the arts, live music and culture, but clearly there are time constraints. This debate is not just about charities in the sectors that I have talked about, although broadly speaking they are the ones doing things at the coalface that the public sector tends not to be able to do itself directly—otherwise, frankly, these charities would not exist.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I agree: of course it is ludicrous. This is charitable money—most of it is charitable donations—that is given to charities to provide valuable work, and the Treasury is taking it and putting it into the Government’s coffers. Some of these charities, such as those in my right hon. Friend’s constituency, are small charities doing valuable work and are the least able to afford to give money over to the national Government. It is therefore unsurprising that 7,000 charities have signed an open letter to the Chancellor. This is about not just the increase in national insurance contributions but the timing of it and the combination of factors.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I agree, and the hon. Member perfectly illustrates the point that the Government’s stated aims are not backed up by their tax decisions. If the Government want better palliative care—I hope that they do—they should not be taking money away from hospices, or from charities, such as Marie Curie, that operate end-of-life care. He makes that point well; I thank him for it. Before finishing, I will again quote the interim CEO of Refuge. She has said that the violence against women and girls sector “is already under immense financial pressure”, and that not only did the Budget “fail to include detail about how much funding has been set aside to tackle violence against women and girls, the Government’s plans to increase National Insurance contributions for employers could have dire repercussions for charities.” My ask of the Government is to extend to charities the exemption that they have given the NHS and public bodies. It is not difficult; there is no lack of clarity about what a charity is. Nobody will wish to beat the Government for making a sensible decision for charities. There are some alternative options, but that is plainly the only ask that will really deal with the problem. The alternative options are to provide some other form of relief, but that relief should be felt by all charities. If the Government cannot go as far as to relieve all charities, they should target relief to specific sectors. We have heard in this debate about those sectors, such as those operating in poverty and homelessness, and in health and social care, and those tackling violence against women and girls. At the very least, they should do an impact assessment. No impact assessment has been carried out of the impact of this tax increase on the charity sector. That must be the most basic ask: there can be no good reason not to have an impact assessment. Finally, the Government must go back and rethink their whole approach to taxation on charities, to help to deliver—not hinder—their stated aims.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I will make a little progress and then I will be happy to give way. The National Council for Voluntary Organisations estimates that the overall cost of the money taken from charities and transferred into the Treasury will be £1.4 billion. That is money being taken from charitable sources and transferred into the Treasury. Sarah Elliott, the chief executive of the National Council for Voluntary Organisations, said: “This is the biggest shock to the sector since pandemic. Charities already juggling rising demand, escalating costs, and the falling funding cannot absorb an additional £1.4 billion in costs without drastic service cuts...This additional cost, for which there is no headroom in budgets to cover, will be devastating.”

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I beg to move, That this House has considered the impact of changes to employers’ National Insurance contributions on the charity sector. The background to this debate is the October Budget presented by the Government, and in particular the rise in national insurance contributions for employers. The rate was raised to 15% and the threshold at which national insurance contributions apply was brought down from £9,100 to £5,000, bringing in some part-time workers who previously had not caused their employers to be subject to national insurance contributions. Much has been said about the impact of the rise on the economy, but less has been said about the impact on charities. Charities deliver almost £17 billion-worth of public services a year. Public services and civil society could not operate without charities. There is a tendency to overlook the important work they do. Particularly at the level of local government, charities are responsible through contracting for the delivery of a lot of the services that local governments are required to deliver.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I agree with both those points. Charities tell us that the change will be the straw that breaks the camel’s back for many. I know that because, immediately before entering Parliament, I worked for a nursing charity supporting dementia carers. The Government know the pressure created by the national insurance contribution rise. They exempted the NHS because they knew the impact it would have on healthcare, but they ignored or failed to understand the contribution that charities make to health and social care.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I of course agree with the hon. Member that the Government must rethink the changes. I will go on to use examples from my own constituency, and I thank her for doing so with hers.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I agree. Putting pressure on other health providers and social care providers inevitably leads to pressure on the NHS. My hon. Friend hits the nail on the head in her comments and I thank her for them. For Carers Trust the cost of this rise is £3 million—that is not its tax bill; that is just the bill from this rise in the Budget. For Stroke Association it is £2.1 million over two years, and for Teenage Cancer Trust it is £300,000. It is not just about health and social care charities, but charities tackling poverty and homelessness. The Labour Government say it is their aim, and it was in their manifesto that they would develop a new cross-party strategy “to put Britain back on track to ending homelessness”. What good is a strategy when it is stripping £60 million from charities trying to do what the Government want them to do? The homelessness charity Crisis says the rise will cost an additional £750,000 and—here is the point—with little or no time to prepare. That announcement was made just a few months before the effects will kick in, and Crisis says it is likely to lead to a reduction in frontline services. I will mention a few other charities. The changes will cost Single Homeless Project £650,000. Rick Henderson, the CEO of Homeless Link, says—his words, not mine—that they are “desperately worried” about closures of homelessness services, leaving thousands without support, and that this NI increase “could be the final nail in the coffin.” Those are not my words, or the words of politicians, but the words of charity leaders up and down the United Kingdom. The change affects charities supporting other vulnerable people, as well as charities supporting women and girls. Labour pledged in its manifesto to halve violence against women and girls, but chief executives of seven charities, including Victim Support and Rape Crisis, have warned the rise could result in their losing staff, closing waiting lists and ultimately closing the doors to some vulnerable victims of crime. That is the result of this Budget national insurance rise.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I agree. Ultimately, the Government should exempt all charities from national insurance contribution rises. Another possibility, which would be much less beneficial, would be to target the exemption at health and social care provider charities, without which the NHS could not function, but I ask the Minister to expand the exemption to all charities, not just those in health and social care.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I will give some examples before I give way to my hon. Friend. The change will cost Marie Curie almost £3 million a year, and it says that without further support critical services for the terminally ill may be scaled back. Hospices throughout the country will pay between £30 million and £50 million a year. For the Mountbatten hospice in my constituency it will cost £338,000—just for one hospice. Just before Christmas, the Government announced £100 million of investment in hospices over two years—so £50 million a year—which is merely giving back, broadly, what they have already taken. That money is targeted at capital spending, when hospices tell me their main pressure is revenue. Are the Government taking revenue from them and giving it back provided they spend it on capital? Clearly, they are not going to give money to all hospices, but they are going to take money from all hospices—that seems inevitable.

• 7 Jan 2025 · Employer National Insurance Contributions: Charities · Hansard source

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  I give way to my right hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart).