Jim McMahon MP: speeches

Speeches

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  Very real pressures have built up, and I will not criticise any council from the Dispatch Box—the days of doing that have long gone. That is not to say that I agree with every decision made by individual councils, or that I would not have chosen a different course. In some cases, the decisions were plainly not in the interests of local taxpayers. However, we are where we are, and we need to stabilise the sector this year and reform the funding system over the multi-year settlement, so that we begin to build back the foundation of sustainability and long-term security. We need to invest in prevention and reform, so that we get ahead of the problem instead of paying at the back end for worse outcomes. In the end, we need a funding system that really holds. By doing that, we will ensure that most councils in most parts of the country find themselves in a much better position than they were before the work was undertaken. Because of the types of decisions that have been taken, there will always be outliers. Whatever system we design, we can accommodate most councils in most circumstances, but because of the decisions that have sometimes been taken, we cannot accommodate all councils in all circumstances. The Government have committed to working alongside councils to work through this. Of course, local government reorganisation will accelerate the need to do that in some areas, because we will have to reconcile the creation of unitaries with the inherited debt liabilities. We are fully sighted on that.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question, and assure him that it is an issue we are acutely aware of. The disproportionate burden that drainage places on small district councils is quite a challenge. We met representatives from a number of district councils to talk about the internal drainage board levy system, and, as an interim measure—in the end, I think we do need a more fundamental review of how it is paid for—we have increased the levy grant by £2 million to £5 million, so we are beginning to get there. However, I agree with the right hon. Gentleman entirely: we do need a long-term solution to that. He has my commitment that we will find a way through that as we begin the wider reforms later on. As the Chancellor said last week, this plan will be achieved first and foremost through growth, which will be driven by empowered local leaders working in partnership with local communities and local businesses; those who have skin in the game are now on the playing field, not confined to the terraces as spectators. This new approach has to start with strong and empowered local government, because whether we are talking about raising living standards, delivering 1.5 million new homes and vital infrastructure, getting our NHS and social care system back on its feet or creating good jobs and strong communities, it all comes back to local councils delivering for local communities. Indeed, we cannot deliver on the national renewal that working people deserve without grassroots government leading the charge, which means resetting our relationship with local leaders and rebuilding the foundations from scratch. It means ditching the slogans and gimmicks in favour of a determination to get the basics right, delivering decent local services that people can begin to rely on once more. After 14 years of neglect and decline, that will be easier said than done, and, because of the scale of the challenge, it will take more than six months to fix. But be clear: we have changed course. The work has begun with determination and with pace. Councils of all political stripes are feeling the strain, and it will be a long, hard road to get them back to full fitness. This final settlement marks an important milestone on that journey, as we finally turn the page on chaos, austerity and 14 long years of managed decline. In that spirit, the settlement addresses the financial crisis facing councils head on, moving away from bidding wars for wasteful competitive funding pots and towards core, stable multi-year financial settlements.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  There are, understandably, many criticisms of council tax. It is accepted that it is a fairly regressive tax in terms of the relationship between the ability of a household to pay versus a property’s value, but in the end it is a reliable tax that is understood by the taxpaying public. The framework of council tax will be maintained, in the same way as business rates, but that does not mean that we cannot do more to make it fairer. The best way to make it fairer in this settlement is for the Government to play their part. What we have seen over the past 14 years is that, despite an acceleration in council tax increases, councils have still found themselves impoverished: they cannot raise enough money locally, whatever they do, to fund the demand for local public services. We clearly see the role of the Government as an equaliser to the system. Taking into account the ability to raise tax at a local level, by providing a top-up the Government can ensure that every area gets decent local public services, and we can begin to get some fairness into the system. I take my hon. Friend’s point entirely, however, and I look forward to the work of the all-party parliamentary group.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  In a way, there is commonality across the House in recognising that particular problems really ought to be taken into account when it comes to local government funding, and if it is got right—our intention is to get it right—it will take into account up-to-date population and deprivation statistics. It should take into account the ability of a local authority to raise tax locally through council tax, or through business rates or fees and charges. It should take into account the cost of delivering services, whether that is about the rental costs of acquiring a space to operate from or even the cost of delivering services in areas such as rural or coastal communities, where there are particular issues. The formula should take that into account, so let’s work through that. We are responding to the pressures, which is why we are making £3.7 billion of extra funding available for social care authorities. That includes an uplift of £880 million in the social care grant, which includes an additional £20 million that I have confirmed today for the new children’s social care prevention grant, taking the total for that grant to £270 million. That paves the way for the national roll-out of transformed family help and child protection services. We have doubled settlement investment in preventive children’s social care to £500 million next year. If we do not reform the system and focus on prevention, we will continue to pay more and more, too often for worsening outcomes. This is happening alongside the Education Secretary’s work to take forward the Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill, which will crack down on profiteering and improve child protection—something that the Tories failed to do, at a very dear cost to taxpayers, who were left to pick up the bill. Again, the severe pressures on SEND services came across loud and clear during the consultation. As we have announced, we are boosting SEND provision and alternative provision by an extra £1 billion to start to return the system to financial sustainability and to improve outcomes for young people. We are aware of the impact that dedicated schools grant deficits are having on council finances, which is why we are committed to working with councils, parents, teachers and schools to transform SEND provision and the life chances of the children who need it.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  That is the point. When it comes to fairness in the council tax system, we have to be honest and say that there has increasingly been an imbalance, whereby people are paying more and more but often receiving fewer and fewer universal neighbourhood services. There is a real danger to the democratic process if there is not a link between the tax that people are paying and the quality of public services that they are getting in return. In the end, councils are wrestling with adult social care, children’s services and temporary accommodation, and what else can they do but meet the demand? It is not a good position for the taxpayer or for local authorities, and we acknowledge that. Our new £600 million recovery grant targets areas with both the greatest need and the greatest demand for services. The recovery grant is the first meaningful step towards long-overdue funding reform, but it is only the first step. A longer-term and more fundamental overhaul of the way that councils are funded is needed to ensure that all councils can deliver for local residents. The Tories committed to improving and updating the way that councils are funded through the fair funding review, but in the end they failed to take the tough decisions needed to deliver it, just like they failed to give councils certainty and security so that they could plan ahead, with a decade marked by year-by-year, hand-to-mouth settlements. That is why the 2026-27 settlement, which will be the first multi-year settlement in a decade, will introduce an up-to-date assessment of councils’ needs and resources. We are acting where the previous Government failed. We will get on with the job of allocating funding fairly, based on the evidence of need, because councils know that every pound counts, and they also know that the current system—

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  I cannot commit to that today. What I can do is to commit, from a political point of view, that the Government are willing to work cross-party and through APPGs to understand the weight of the issue and the potential solutions. I will be honest, though: we need to manage expectations on whether we can get consensus in this place on a new form of council tax or local property tax, but that does not mean we are not willing to listen to arguments.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  The hon. Member must accept that part of the difficulty we have in a two-tier system is the inability to move money around that system. It is correct to say that rural councils, mainly in two-tier areas, have had an increase of nearly 6%, but we have a huge inability to move that money around. There is around £2 billion in the two-tier system that could be freed up through reorganisation of local government, so will he stop looking both ways on reorganisation, and give a commitment on behalf of his party that the Liberal Democrats will support it?

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  The £515 million of investment from the Treasury to help councils with the increase in employer national insurance contributions has been distributed on the basis of their net service expenditure costs. We thought that that was the fairest way of establishing an evidence base that could be scrutinised. There have been legitimate representations about third-party provider costs in some critical areas, such as social care. We accept the figures from the Local Government Association because we have no reason to dispute them, but our difficulty is that that in itself does not mean that the cost will be passed on directly to the local authority in question. Some parties are bound by contracts that mean that they cannot pass it on even if they wanted to. There will be negotiations about the ability of a provider to absorb that cost, but we do not underestimate the problem. No one is going to pretend that this settlement fixes the system. What we want to try to do is stabilise the system through a multi-year settlement with bigger reforms.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  I am only intervening given the hon. Gentleman’s position as Chair of the Public Accounts Committee. I think that this is a common interest for the PAC, Parliament and the Government. I do not want to labour the points about the past; the question now is how we move forward. From our perspective, it is not acceptable at all that the whole of Government accounts cannot be reconciled because of local government audit backlogs, so we want to address that. More importantly—this is definitely where there is a common interest—we must rebuild the early warning system, because what we cannot pick up effectively enough is whether there are systemic problems, which are more than just one council beginning to wobble, that we should be aware of and take action on.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  This is not a perfect settlement, but it is my honest belief that it is a good settlement. We are keen to make sure that the money goes to local authorities in a way that is transparent, with an evidence base that can be scrutinised. Councils are sick and tired of the system being manipulated by Governments of different types over different periods in a way that is not fair.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  I thank my hon. Friend for that question and pay tribute to Salford for its leadership in the work it is doing in many areas of public sector reform in Salford and across Greater Manchester. In the end, if all we do is pay at the back end for a system that, frankly, is broken, we will be paying more and more every single year for a system that is delivering worse outcomes for service users. That is bad for service users and bad for taxpayers, so we must have a more fundamental response and we fully intend to do that. The multi-year settlements are essential to ensure local leaders have the time and space to plan their budgets. But we will not stop there. We are introducing a fairer system to give councils the certainty and stability they need to go from costly crisis management to long-term prevention and the root-and-branch reform of local public services. Crucially, I can now confirm that core spending power for the sector will be more than £69 billion for 2025-26, a 6.8% cash terms increase on this year. I can confirm that, despite some very difficult choices—there have been choices and trade-offs to make, as there always are—this settlement will mean that no local authority will see a reduction in its core spending power.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  Absolutely. Deprivation is a key part of the funding settlement. This is the first settlement in a long time, and probably the first since the area-based grant in 2010-11, in which deprivation is a measure by which the Government allocate money to the sector. If we see this as only a local government problem, we will miss the prevention and reform agenda that we need. My hon. Friend and I often talk about this, but the Home Office is working on diversionary activities for young people. In many communities, gang activity, child criminal exploitation and knife crime are very real issues that draw too many young people into crime. We need those diversionary activities in the places where people live. We need to address that, and it should be a whole of Government agenda. That is why we are marshalling our work around the Government’s missions, and our approach is anchored to the plan for change.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  I think that that is true up to a point, but we need to take a couple of factors into account. First, the payment relating to employer national insurance contributions goes straight to the council. Secondly, this needs to be taken in the round. For the right hon. Gentleman’s own council, the social care grant is £48 million, the social care change grant is £6.7 million, and when it comes to third-party providers, the market sustainability and improvement fund is £10 million. We are trying to meet the demand in a very complex environment, but, as I have said, there is no pretending that this will fix a broken system in one fell swoop. The reform will take time.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  On the timetable point, all councils in the 21 two-tier areas for reorganisation will receive their statutory elections. Individual councils will need to decide whether to apply for the process or not. If they choose to apply, we would expect their proposals to be submitted to the Government by November. That is quite a short period for them to work up the proposals, but there will be support in terms of capacity along the route. As for how that unlocks devolution a bit further down the line, we are obviously concentrating on the devolution priority programme at the moment and getting the mayors in place, but the door is always open to areas that want to talk about mayoral devolution.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  Where we can agree is that we accept that the old perspective that there are inner-London pressures that do not feature in the outer-London boroughs might have held in the past but it does not address the complexity that there is today, because a number of pressures have moved outwards into those outer boroughs. I think that that is accepted and appreciated. I said that this might not be a perfect settlement, but it is a good settlement. The hon. Gentleman’s council has a 6.5% increase in its core spending power. So there is room there—this is not a flat cash settlement—and we hope that the local authority will make the necessary decisions. We are not interested in scoring party political points or pitting one council against another. We know that councils of all political stripes are struggling, and we want to work together, through the later reforms that we are looking at as part of the more structural review we are undertaking, to make sure that we genuinely address that. We hope that when Members across the House look at the rationale and the evidence base—whether they agree with the quantum is a separate issue—they can at least say that it holds. That is the work that we are undertaking today, and we encourage Members to contribute to the process.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  The hon. Gentleman has my commitment that we will review the submission that we have had in good faith and in the spirit of partnership. We recognise that the councils that have made exceptional financial support applications have done so at the end of a process, not at the start, and that they need the Government to work with them. We will confirm exact allocations later, local authority by local authority, but I take on board what the hon. Gentleman says. The financial legacy left by the last Government has led to a record number of councils asking for additional council tax increases. The ability to request additional increases already existed, but there is a need to balance them with the impact on local taxpayers. On that basis, we have taken a stricter approach than the previous Government. That means avoiding excessively high increases and agreeing to rises only where councils have comparatively low levels of existing council tax. Having carefully considered requests, we have agreed to modest increases in six local authorities: Windsor and Maidenhead, Birmingham, Bradford, Newham, Somerset and Trafford councils. However, our strict approach means that we have not been able to agree to all the requests that we have had and that not all requests have been met in full. Taxpayers in those areas are still expected to pay less than the average amount of council tax, compared with similar councils, because of the approach that we have taken. We have been clear that all councils should take whatever steps are necessary to protect their most vulnerable residents from the impact of additional increases. At national level, even with those increases, the overall increase in council tax is not expected to exceed that of last year. Without the additional £5 billion provided in the Budget and the settlement, there is no doubt that that would not have been possible. In a way, that displays the new relationship, because, unlike the previous Government, we will not impoverish councils or parade them around to be shamed. Instead, we will work with them to put them back on their feet financially. We will fix the broken local audit system and the unacceptable backlog that we inherited; move from a failing, dispersed approach towards a focused, proportionate local audit office that offers value for money; and improve transparency, accountability and confidence in how hard-earned taxpayer money is being spent. However, we all know that there is no quick fix. The legacy that we have been left is nothing short of scandalous, but this settlement marks a turning point. It will back local government with the long-term funding and certainty that it needs to fix the foundations, based on a new partnership with central Government. Through reform, fairer funding and better stewardship, we will ensure that the sector is fit, legal and decent, so it can stand on its feet as a strong, functioning arm of the state. The settlement will provide more money for local government, especially in areas of greatest need, such as social care, and more investment in the things that matter to local communities, from support for our high streets and town centres to mending potholes and boosting local planning departments, adding up to public services that we can all begin to rely on once again. Stronger communities will support a stronger economy, with higher growth, delivering higher living standards for working people that will be felt in every part of the country. Driven by a devolution revolution, we will deliver the greatest transfer of power from Whitehall to our communities in a generation. Finally, we will put politics back into the service of working people. Our plan for change has local government at its heart and I commend it to the House.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  I take my hon. Friend’s points entirely. I credit him for much of the work that was done when he chaired the Select Committee, which he did for a long time, and I attribute to his intervention the credibility that it is due. We are focusing today on our immediate fiscal response to support councils over the current financial year, but we accept that to bring about long-term structural reform, such matters as addressing a council’s ability to raise local tax through business rates and council tax must be taken into account, alongside, of course, the cost of delivering public services, including the cost of rural service delivery. We are absolutely committed to taking all those factors into account.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  That work is demonstrated by the Department being able to remove the best value notice. We know that Middlesbrough is not at the end of the improvement journey, and the council itself would say that, but the characteristics of strong civic leadership are clearly on display. I appreciate that it is a lot easier to praise a council from the Dispatch Box. When we consider funding for councils to deliver vital services, we must also consider the taxpayer. We are committed to keeping taxes on working people as low as possible. At the same time, we understand the immense pressure that councils are under, which is why we will strike a balance in maintaining the previous Government’s policy of a 5% referendum principle threshold, which includes a 3% core principle and a 2% principle for the adult social care precept. We all know that councillors, mayors, police and crime commissioners and councils will take into account the impact of increases on households, and it is right that they do so. For the vast majority of councils, those principles and the additional £5 billion in funding that we have announced will be sufficient to support them in setting their budgets. However, we know that some councils are in difficult positions, as we have heard today. For some, unique local decisions have had an impact on their financial stability. For others, over a decade of mounting pressures has finally caught up with them, and whatever they do, that is the reality. We are determined to work together to find a way through that, including by considering requests for additional council tax flexibility and requests from councils seeking exceptional financial support.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  Just to be clear, even rural councils will receive a near 6% increase in their core spending power. It is correct that £600 million through the recovery grant is targeted at deprived communities, but we have followed an assessment of need right through the system, including that of rural authorities. The hon. Member must welcome that.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  I beg to move, That the Local Government Finance Report (England) 2025–26 (HC 623), which was laid before this House on 3 February, be approved.

• 5 Feb 2025 · Local Government Finance · Hansard source

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  I will make some progress, but to answer the right hon. Lady’s question on employer national insurance contributions directly, the funding is based on service expenditure costs. The reason is that that allows councils to make a decision about whether the money will cover in-house provision, or whether they will have contractual pressures further along in the system that show up in their service expenditure budgets. That is the approach that we have taken, and the Institute for Fiscal Studies has come out and said that it is a fair way of doing things. As I say, there is no perfect way to deal with this issue in the time that we have, but we have arrived at a good way to do it that gets the money out of the door to the places that need it.

• 21 Jan 2025 · Draft Devon and Torbay Combined County Authority Regulations 2024 Draft Greater Lincolnshire Combined County Authority Regulations 2025 Draft Hull and East Yorkshire Combined Authority Order 2025 Draft Lancashire Combined County Authority Regulations 2024 · Hansard source

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  It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this morning, Mr Mundell. Regulations were laid before Parliament on 26 November 2024 for Lancashire and for Devon and Torbay. The Hull and East Yorkshire Combined Authority Order 2025 was laid before Parliament on 4 December 2024, and the Greater Lincolnshire regulations on 11 December 2024. Although I recognise that combined authorities and combined county authorities are distinct legal bodies with different enabling statutory instruments, I hope Members will be content for me simply to use the term “the combined authorities” hereafter, unless there is a specific reason to separate them out. To deliver on our manifesto commitment, in December 2024 the Government published the “English Devolution” White Paper, which sets out how the Government will widen and deepen devolution across England as part of our central mission to drive economic growth and improve living standards. These instruments are part of fulfilling the mission to move power out of Westminster and back to those who know their areas best. They are significant milestones in the devolution journeys of these four areas. The instruments provide for the implementation of the devolution agreements confirmed on 19 September 2024 between the Government and upper-tier councils in each of the areas concerned. On 18 November 2024, all the respective constituent councils consented to the making of these instruments. The combined authority order will be made, if Parliament approves, under the enabling provision in the Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Act 2009. The three sets of combined county authority regulations will be made, if they are approved, under the enabling provision in the Levelling-up and Regeneration Act 2023. All four authorities will be established on the day after these statutory instruments are made. The Greater Lincolnshire combined county authority and the Hull and East Yorkshire combined authority have chosen to adopt a mayor for their authorities, with the inaugural elections taking place on 1 May this year. The elected mayors will take up office on 6 May, with a four-year term, and will take up their seats on the Council of Nations and Regions. The statutory instruments make provision for the Government’s arrangements for combined authorities. Each authority has specific arrangements, enabled by either the 2023 Act or the 2009 Act and set out in these establishing instruments. In each case, the constituent councils nominate one or more of their members to form the combined authority, sitting alongside the mayor where one is being adopted. District council representation and input into the combined county authorities is determined locally within the framework provide by the 2023 Act. I know from conversations with local leaders, and through commitments they have made, that district councils will play a key role in ensuring the success of devolution in those areas. The instruments confer public authority and local authority functions on the respective combined authorities, as agreed in their devolution agreements and set out in each area’s proposals. To accompany the order, we have laid before Parliament a section 105B report, as required by the 2009 Act; and we have laid before the House a section 20(6) report for the regulations, as required by the 2023 Act. The reports provide details about the public authority functions that are being devolved to these authorities. They include powers over transport and Homes England concurrent regeneration functions, as well as mayoral development corporation functions for the mayoral combined authorities. Additional funding will be available to the areas through the adult skills fund, which will be devolved to the combined authorities from the ’26-’27 academic year, as well as education and skills functions. The Department for Education will work with the combined authorities to support their preparations and ensure that they meet the necessary readiness criteria, and we will legislate in due course when the Secretary of State for Education is assured that they are operationally ready and is satisfied that the required statutory tests have been met in each area. As provided for in the enabling Acts, the constituent councils consulted on the proposals to establish the combined authorities based on their devolution agreements. Those consultations took place between December 2023 and March 2024 for periods of either six or eight weeks. Councils promoted the consultations using social media, communications campaigns, dedicated websites, and online and in-person events with the public. The councils also undertook targeted stakeholder engagement with businesses, the voluntary sector and key institutions in their areas. Responses could be made online via their website or email, on paper via the post or at dedicated events or collection points such as local libraries. I can report that the necessary statutory requirements under the 2023 and 2009 Acts have been considered, and that the authorities preparing the proposals have provided the Secretary of State with a summary of the consultation responses when submitting their proposals to the Government in spring 2024.

• 21 Jan 2025 · Draft Devon and Torbay Combined County Authority Regulations 2024 Draft Greater Lincolnshire Combined County Authority Regulations 2025 Draft Hull and East Yorkshire Combined Authority Order 2025 Draft Lancashire Combined County Authority Regulations 2024 · Hansard source

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  I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Devon and Torbay Combined County Authority Regulations 2024.

• 21 Jan 2025 · Draft Devon and Torbay Combined County Authority Regulations 2024 Draft Greater Lincolnshire Combined County Authority Regulations 2025 Draft Hull and East Yorkshire Combined Authority Order 2025 Draft Lancashire Combined County Authority Regulations 2024 · Hansard source

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  I thank the hon. Member for his contribution and for his support for the measures. One thing that has stood out over quite a long period is that belief in devolution mostly rises far above party politics. It is about a structural change in how the country is governed and where power sits. There may be differences about pace, perhaps, and about focus, and there will always be a conversation about resourcing, but Members across the House absolutely support the direction of travel that we are embarking on to take power away from Westminster and put it into the hands of those who know their areas best. We talk often about precepts. I believe strongly that a precept is the most transparent way for taxpayers to hold to account those who spend public money on their behalf. The reality is that mayoral functions cost money. It costs money to establish a mayoral office and carry out mayoral functions. The more responsibilities and duties we devolve down—there are significant areas of competence in the White Paper—the more mayors and combined authorities will need to marshal to provide the staffing support and resource to deliver them. There are two ways of doing that. Either we do it through a levy provided to each local authority—through what I would call the back door—that does not appear on people’s council tax bills and is agreed from council to combined authority; or we do it through a precept. The benefit of a precept is that it increases transparency. It is published on everyone’s council tax bill, and they know exactly what they are paying for. In terms of democracy and accountability, it makes it a lot easier for people to hold the mayor to account for the money that is being spent in their name. I accept that in broaching any idea of new taxation, we must take into consideration the fact that people are reeling from the cost of living crisis and recognise the impact of tax, but we are clear that this is not a new tax in the overall sense. This is about transparency in the tax system so that people can see where their money is really going. The shadow Minister rightly mentions borrowing limits. We have seen examples of local authorities that have borrowed far in excess of their revenue, to the point that they are now financially unviable. We all know the local authorities in scope for that. Combined authorities will agree with His Majesty’s Treasury what their borrowing cap will be, and they will only be able to borrow within that cap, providing they have the revenue to support that borrowing liability. I have been a councillor in Greater Manchester, and I now represent it as Member of Parliament. We were able to align locally directed money, some of which was borrowing and some of which was local authority contributions, to extend the tram system. The benefit of the tram system was that it unlocked significant private sector investment, allowed central Government to align their capital programme with what we were doing locally and, importantly, had an earn-back mechanism that allowed the ticket sale revenue to be offset against loan liability. In that sense, it is a self-financing model that can grow and grow. Ultimately, the loan will be paid off, but we will always have a tram system that people will use and buy tickets for, and that will generate revenue, create jobs and be good for the economy. Providing that the HMT cap is in place, Members should be assured that it will not be excessive. The measure is not being introduced in isolation. We are doing a huge amount on the reform of the local government pension scheme, which I and many Members believe has untapped potential for growth in this country. It is the largest pension scheme in the UK, with £400 billion, and the sixth largest in the world. I do not think we realise the benefit of it in our towns and cities for local investment as we should. If we can unlock even a small percentage of additional investment, that could be transformational. The English devolution Bill puts a duty on mayors and their combined authorities, and on pension schemes, to work together to create a pipeline of investable products.