Jess Phillips MP: speeches 2025

Speeches

• 24 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Following what I was just saying about making things actually change on the ground, these clauses are about doing some of that. It is important that professionals with safeguarding responsibilities, such as the police, teachers, healthcare professionals and social workers, have adequate and clear guidance to support them in their work to tackle stalking and to support victims. We must also ensure that such professionals are doing all they can to pursue perpetrators while adequately safeguarding victims. To do that effectively, they must work together. Clause 71 therefore enables the Home Secretary to issue multi-agency statutory guidance on stalking. It will apply to relevant public authorities and professionals will have to have due regard to it. In short, this measure provides a framework to support professionals to better respond to the needs of stalking victims and to better manage stalking perpetrators. I have seen amazing examples of that. In fact, the two best examples in the country are in London and Cheshire, where multi-agency solutions, with local health services, victims services and police sitting together, are dealing not just with the victim’s trauma or getting a criminal justice response, but with the medical element—the psychological issue—of people with obsessive behaviours. I cannot praise those two multi-agency units enough. It is important that the right procedures and policies are in place to safeguard victims of stalking as early as possible. Our manifesto committed to giving victims the right to know the identity of their online stalker. I had the privilege of working with Nicola Thorp, who has tirelessly campaigned for this measure after her ordeal with stalking. In her case, the police said they could not reveal the identity of the offender even after he was arrested, despite the perpetrator once saying that he had got so close to Nicola on the train that he “could smell” her. Clause 72 provides for the introduction of statutory guidance, which will set out the process the police should follow to decide whether they can release the identity of a stalking suspect. In doing so, they will need to consider the risk to the victim and what steps are needed to safeguard them from further harm. The police will have to have due regard to the guidance. We know that stalkers will often use multiple online aliases to terrorise their victims. It is extremely dangerous for victims to be unaware of the true identity of who is stalking them online. This measure is an important aspect of ensuring that victims of stalking have the best possible protections and safeguards in place.

• 24 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Exactly. We rely on our courts to ensure that these decisions are proportionate. In order to get proportionate decisions on breaches, we need to ensure that our criminal justice system is better trained across the board. From the Home Office’s perspective, I point to the fact that this Government have finally invested in a specific policing unit on violence against women and girls, public protection and safeguarding for the entire country. That has not existed before. I always say, “I want what counter-terrorism has got”. Well, counter-terrorism has it, and the number of victims of violence against women and girls dwarfs by a country mile the number of people affected by terrorism in our country, but there is not standardised training for police to ensure that, where the legislation might be complicated, they can move things forward—even if the legislation were not changed, which we are seeking to do—or training about how quickly police should be applying for things. These are all things that will take time and training, and we cannot just rely on legislation to answer all the questions. The requirements attached to an SPO must be proportionate, so it is right that a court takes into account the impact on the respondent’s religious beliefs, education and employment, for example. The court is only required to avoid conflicts so far as it is practicable. Again, the courts are well versed in making such balancing judgments. As somebody who has had orders made where the judgment has had to be balanced—for example, where there has been a question whether the respondent has a right to contact me because I am their Member of Parliament—I relied on the court to decide what was practicable in those circumstances. The shadow Minister asked for an example, but it would be dangerous for me as a Minister to give examples that could then be used in a court. Courts deal with balancing the rights of the respondent and the victim. I will not pretend that I think they always get it right, but it is for them to decide how to balance those particular considerations.

• 24 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I have realised that I did not answer one question after the Divisions. The hon. Member for Stockton West asked about the justification for the regulation-making power in clause 60; I refer him to paragraph 90 of the delegated powers memorandum for the details on that. On amendments regarding a £2,500 fine, under the existing legal framework a person would go to prison for up to five years and face an unlimited fine, so the amendment would weaken the current position. I want to make that completely clear before we divide. On the hon. Member for Windsor’s point about it being a constructive conversation, as somebody who sat on the Opposition Benches and moved hundreds of amendments over the years, in my view the point was always to have a constructive conversation with the Government about what would make things better. That is absolutely the spirit in which I wish to proceed. I always welcome any conversation that any Opposition Back Bencher, and indeed Front Bencher, wishes to have with me. Question put, That the amendment be made.

• 24 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Absolutely. The Metropolitan police’s decision to use those three particular boroughs for the domestic abuse protection orders was undoubtedly based on intelligence, and also on what we can best learn. We have seen with the domestic abuse protection orders that someone can get in and out of a courtroom within 24 hours. That has absolutely not been the case with SPOs classically, nor am I going to stand here and pretend that I can make that happen with all orders. What I am saying is that there is a standard, and safety and risk have to be considered. Looking across the board following the super-complaint, these clauses are a step in the right direction. This is about changing how things happen on the ground and giving people the confidence to access the orders. If someone tries to get an order and cannot, they start to think, “What’s the point?” On the shadow Minister’s point about breaches, any order—and I know because I have them—is only as good as what happens when it is breached. If nothing happens when somebody breaches an order, the victim does not bother reporting them any more, and they certainly do not bother trying to get another order, on acquittal or not.

• 24 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  The Disclosure and Barring Service issues criminal record checks in England and Wales to support employers to make decisions about the suitability of individuals for particular roles. The DBS also maintains two lists of individuals whom it has barred from working in regulated activity: the adults’ and children’s barred lists. Regulated activity is defined in legislation and covers sensitive roles and activities working closely with children and vulnerable adults—for example, teaching and supervising children. Roles in regulated activity are eligible for the highest level of DBS check, namely the enhanced with barred lists check. Under the current definition of regulated activity, there is an exemption for work that is subject to day-to-day supervision of another person. That means that people in roles that involve close work with children are not in regulated activity if they are working under supervision. That supervision exemption means that employers cannot check whether such people are on the children’s barred list, which creates a safeguarding risk. It means that somebody who the DBS considers to pose a risk of harm to children, such that they have been barred from working in regulated activity with them, could nevertheless work with them under supervision and without the employer’s knowledge. That cannot be right. In the final report of the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse, it recommended that anyone engaging an individual to work or volunteer with children on a frequent basis should be able to check whether they have been barred by the DBS from working with children, including where the role is supervised. The Government agree. Clause 77 therefore gives effect to that recommendation. It removes the supervision exemption so that these roles will be defined as regulated activity, regardless of whether they are supervised. That will allow employers to access enhanced DBS checks that include a check of the children’s barred list. Bringing those supervised roles into regulated activity will also make it an offence for a barred person to apply for or undertake those roles, and an offence for an employer to knowingly employ them in those roles. With this measure, we will reduce the risk of a barred person working with children in a supervised capacity. Question put and agreed to. Clause 77 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. — (Keir Mather .)

• 24 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I will start at the end and work backwards through the questions. It was a delight to hear everybody mention the Suzy Lamplugh Trust, which is an amazing organisation that I have had the pleasure to work with for many years. Since becoming a Minister, I have had the especial pleasure of working very closely with the trust on how we come out of the super-complaint with the recommendations and improve the situation all round. I would say exactly the same thing about Claire Waxman, who is both my friend and my colleague. On the issue of the legislation, part of the super-complaint was about the need to look at the different specific offences. I do not disagree that the bar can be too high or that there can be confusion about the two different offences. The legislation is currently under review, as Claire Waxman and others in the coalition recommended. The super-complaint showed that when used properly, SPOs are considered an extremely valuable tool in protecting victims of stalking, but it also identified that not enough are being put in place, as other hon. Members have identified, and that there is not effective monitoring of the ones that are. There is clearly much more to the issue than this legislation. I sat for years considering well-written legislation; I do not have many good things to say about the past 14 years, but the words that got written on goatskin were considerably better than the words that had existed before. But they are pointless if they do not change things on the ground. It is quite hard for me to sit here and have people talk to me about how traumatic it is to be a victim of stalking—about the things that happen that change people’s lives forever—because my life has changed immeasurably because of the stalking that I currently experience, and that happens to me all the time. When I have tried to get SPOs for other people, one of the main problems I have perceived is delay in the courts, which others have identified. The hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam is in the lucky position of representing one of the rare places in the country where people can get a DAPN or a domestic abuse protection order.

• 24 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  As I was saying before we were so democratically interrupted, amendment 50 seeks to place a duty on the police to notify victims when an offender intends to change their name. Again, I entirely understand the intention behind the amendment, but the police are already able to disclose information, on a discretionary basis, to protect victims from further harm. It is important to note that many victims will simply not want to be notified of information relating to the perpetrator of the crime, especially if they have made considerable efforts to move on with their lives. I handled a case of this type very recently. A woman came to see me about her abusive father. She had not heard from him or anything of him for decades, and the effect of the notification on her was one of calamity: it was to see her life turned upside down by something she had moved past. One can only ask how we would administer such a system, with an opt-in and opt-out, when we are talking, specifically in relation to sex offender notification systems, of periods of decades. Therefore, although I absolutely recognise the intention behind the amendment, I wonder whether cases can be cited in which this type of notification would have made a difference but did not happen. I would be happy to hear from and speak to the hon. Member for Stockton West about that.

• 24 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I have met victims of childhood sexual abuse, for example, who have suffered trauma years and years into the future. I have to say that, in recent years, that has been very badly exacerbated by delays in our courts system. I have worked with children who were sexually abused in childhood, who do not see the inside of a courtroom until they are adults, causing a period of developmental delay in their lives. Their lives remain on hold while they are waiting for a system to deliver something for them. I have seen that affect their working lives. I have seen it affect their mental health beyond anything that should have happened. Sometimes state failure has exacerbated that, so we have to have a pragmatic system that allows for the risk to be assessed and the needs of the victim to be assessed to see whether notification would be a requirement, and that currently exists. New clause 55 seeks to introduce a requirement for data on the employment status of convicted sex offenders to be published on an annual basis. I reassure the hon. Member for Stockton West that registered sex offenders are managed under multi-agency public protection arrangements and will already have in place a risk management plan that considers employment information. That would allow the offender managers to manage risks around employment post conviction. The police may record the employment status of individuals on their systems where that is relevant, but to routinely require forces to collate and publish employment data would have questionable gains. Such resources are considerably better focused on the management of offenders. The Ministry of Justice publishes data annually on registered sex offenders who are subject to multi-agency public protection arrangements, and we are confident that the police already have the systems in place to record appropriate data to ensure that offenders are managed according to their risk. I recognise the spirit in which the amendments were tabled but, given what I have said, I hope that the hon. Member for Stockton West will withdraw his amendment.

• 24 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  The shadow Minister makes some interesting points. It is impossible for me to say now exactly how much this will improve things in the future, but it will obviously be kept under review. The Government have set up a specific unit, the national centre for VAWG and public protection—the creation of a specialist policing centre for specific active training and specialisation in the space of public protection, child abuse and violence against women and girls. I think that specialist training is required not only here but across the board. We need to ensure that all police forces across England and Wales have standardised practice in public protection and safeguarding. Question put and agreed to. Clause 67 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill . Clause 68 ordered to stand part of the Bill . Schedule 9 agreed to .

• 24 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Roger, while we expect a vote. As we are quorate, I will move on with this task. I will come on to answer the questions put by the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Stockton West, but will first go through the relevant clauses. Ensuring that the system for managing sex offenders is as robust as it can be is a crucial part of delivering the mission to halve violence against women and girls in a decade. It is important that the police have the right tools to manage sex offenders and prevent reoffending. Clause 59 requires registered sex offenders to notify the police of a new name no less than seven days before using it. Currently, when an offender changes their name, they are required to notify the police no more than three days after the change. The clause strengthens the current requirements by ensuring that sex offenders give notification of name changes in advance, which will support the police in ensuring that safeguards are in place. Clause 60 introduces a requirement for registered sex offenders to notify the police when they intend to be absent from their sole or main residence for more than five days. It also requires offenders to tell the police of their intention to be absent no less than 12 hours before leaving their home address. Currently, offenders are required to notify the police of any address where they spend seven consecutive days or seven days cumulatively in a 12-month period. It is clear from our engagement with the police that the current legislation could be exploited by offenders staying at several different addresses for periods of just under seven days, meaning they do not have to notify. This change will enable the police to receive more actionable information about the offender’s travel plans and it will close the opportunity for them to spend up to seven days at many different addresses without notifying. Clause 61 seeks to strengthen the management of registered sex offenders by providing the police with actionable information in advance of an offender entering specified premises where children are present. The current legislation requires all registered sex offenders to notify the police after spending 12 hours in a household with children. That 12 hours is not cumulative, leading to potential safeguarding risks and operational challenges. For example, the police face challenges in evidencing an offender’s presence in a household for more than 12 hours or contradicting offenders’ assertions that they were in the household for less than 12 hours. Sadly, abuse can take place in any timeframe. These changes aim to enhance the safety of children by requiring offenders to notify the police in advance of going into premises where children are present. The clause includes a power to specify the premises in secondary legislation, so that the requirement can apply to more categories of premises than households and we can amend the list as and when needed. This measure will apply to those offenders with convictions for child sexual offences or who are deemed by the police to pose a risk of sexual harm to children. It will ensure that the police receive actionable information with which they can take steps to safeguard children. Clause 66 gives the police the power to issue registered sex offenders who pose an additional risk a notice that restricts them from changing their name on identity documents—namely passports, driving licences or immigration documents—without police approval. Any failure to seek approval from the police will be a breach punishable by a maximum sentence of five years’ imprisonment. The police will be able to give approval to name changes where there is a relevant condition, for example where an offender gets married or changes religion. However, the police will still be able to refuse approval in those instances if it is necessary to protect the public from the risk of sexual harm. Clause 66 allows for information sharing between the police and the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency so that the DVLA can make the police aware of any unauthorised attempts to change a name on a driving licence. Equivalent processes already exist for passports and immigration documents. This will ensure that those registered sex offenders who are deemed to be at risk of using a name change to commit sexual harm are unable to continue offending under a new name and pass under the radar of law enforcement. It is important to recognise that these restrictions are necessary to ensure that high-risk offenders are managed effectively in the community and to protect the public from the risk of sexual harm. I will deal briefly with amendments 36 to 38 tabled by the hon. Member for Stockton West. It is already an offence under section 91 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 either to fail to comply with the notification requirements or to knowingly provide false information to the police in purported compliance. These offences are currently punishable, when tried on indictment, by up to five years’ imprisonment. The amendments would, in effect, considerably lower the existing punishments for non-compliance with the notification requirements. A potential custodial sentence or an unlimited fine is already a strong deterrent for non-compliance. The amendments are therefore unnecessary, although I accept the spirit in which they were probably intended. Amendment 50 seeks to place a duty on the police to notify victims—

• 24 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Registered sex offenders who receive a sentence of imprisonment of 30 months or more must comply with the notification requirements indefinitely after 15 years, or eight for juveniles. They may apply for the police to review and, if appropriate, discharge their notification requirements. There is currently no power for the police to proactively review an offender’s indefinite notification requirements after 15 years. That results in offenders who are unable to make an application—for example, due to a disability—remaining subject to the notification requirements unnecessarily. Chief Constable Mick Creedon recommended in his independent review into the police-led management of registered sex offenders in the community that the police should have the discretion to proactively review a registered sex offender’s indefinite notification requirements once the statutory minimum duration has elapsed. Although registered sex offenders already have the right to apply for a review once the minimum duration has passed, these clauses will give the police in England, Wales and Northern Ireland the ability to initiate a review themselves. The process will remain the same as that for offender-initiated reviews. The police must seek information from other agencies responsible for the risk management of registered sex offenders to inform their decisions about whether to discharge the indefinite notification requirements. Offenders who pose a risk will remain subject to the requirements for life if necessary.

• 24 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I thank the shadow Minister for his questions. These amendments to the law were very much in the predecessor Bill to this one; I think I am the only person who has now sat through this Bill Committee twice. There have not been substantial changes from the point at which the previous Government wished to seek these changes. Frankly, this is a minor amendment that has been asked for by the very experts who currently manage the risk within the community. It came from a Home Office review that was published under the previous Government, in which Mick Creedon wrote: “I recommend that legislation places the responsibility on the police service to proactively consider and, if suitable, apply for indefinite notification requirements to be removed where justifiable without applications from the individuals.” This is coming from Mick Creedon and those who lead police forces, who I have met specifically to discuss the management of sex offenders. Actually, a success in an area of safeguarding law over a number of years is that an increasing number of people have been convicted of sex offences, which is largely down to growing numbers of people being convicted because the evidence base of online child abuse, for example, has grown. There is a real need for officers to be really focused on where risk is the greatest, so that they can protect the public. Protection of the public is where Mick Creedon is coming from in his review, and that is why the clause exists. Question put and agreed to. Clause 64 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clauses 65 and 66 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 67 Power of entry and search Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

• 24 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Tenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Stalking is a high-harm, high-volume form of violence against women and girls. It is important that the right tools are in place to manage stalking perpetrators and to ensure that victims are protected at the earliest opportunity. The changes in the clause widen the situations in which a stalking protection order can be issued. SPOs were introduced in 2019, with the aim of ensuring that effective protections were put in place as soon as risk is identified for victims of stalking. Let me pay tribute to somebody once of this parish: Alex Chalk. He is no longer a Member of Parliament, but he was an incredible advocate for changing the law on stalking and always a pleasure to work with when I was in opposition. Currently, only the police can apply for an SPO, with applications considered by the magistrates court. These changes will enable the courts to make an SPO of their own volition at the conclusion of criminal proceedings in situations where the defendant has been convicted or acquitted. In both scenarios, there can still be a real need to ensure that safeguards and protections are in place for victims. It can be all too easy for defendants who are sentenced to time in prison to continue stalking their victim from prison—I know that, because it happened to me. For defendants who are acquitted, the court may consider there is still a need to safeguard the victim from any further stalking behaviour. The Government’s view is that the current process of using restraining orders in these situations is not sufficient, and that was echoed in the recent super-complaint on the police response to stalking. Restraining orders were not designed specifically to address the risks associated with stalking, and cannot impose positive requirements that address the root causes of the stalking behaviour. This measure therefore provides for stronger protections for victims of stalking.

• 8 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Seventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  I completely agree with the hon. Member for Isle of Wight East that there is a real responsibility on our tech giants. The hon. Member for Windsor talked about the Internet Watch Foundation; the basis of its model is a partnership with social media firms whereby they provide it with huge amounts of the data, so they are not without efforts in the space of child abuse detection—they have been partners in it for many years. However, I think that it is uncontroversial to say that more needs to be done. We as policymakers and lawmakers have to keep a constant eye on how things change. The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Gordon and Buchan, asked a series of questions. She asked, “What if someone uses electronic services without the knowledge of the service provider?” An individual must have the intention of facilitating child sexual exploitation and abuse to be convicted under this offence. Where an internet service is used without the knowledge or intention of a service provider to carry out child sexual exploitation and abuse, the service provider will not be criminally responsible. The shadow Minister also asked about the interplay with the Online Safety Act. These criminal offences are designed to ensure that we can better counter the threat of AI-generated CSAM offences. Offences that criminalise the individual user are not in scope of the Online Safety Act. However, the interplay would be in relation to the content created where these measures are in scope. Companies and platforms would then fall under the OSA. I hope that that answers the hon. Lady’s questions. Question put and agreed to . Clause 38 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill . Schedule 6 agreed to . Clauses 39 and 40 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 41 Notification requirements for offence under section 38 Amendment made : 13, in clause 41, page 46, line 7, at end insert— “(6) In Schedule 4 to the Modern Slavery Act 2015 (offences to which defence in section 45 does not apply), in paragraph 36D (inserted by section 17), after the entry for section 17 insert— “section 38 (online facilitation of child sexual exploitation and abuse)”.”— (Jess Phillips.) This amendment excepts the offence of online facilitation of child sexual exploitation and abuse from the defence in section 45 of the Modern Slavery Act 2015. Clause 41, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill . Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. — (Keir Mather .)

• 8 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Seventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Lewell. Clause 36 criminalises artificial intelligence image generators used by offenders to create the most severe child abuse imagery. Child sexual abuse offenders use fine-tuned AI models to generate photorealistic child sexual abuse material. These images often depict the most severe and graphic forms of abuse, and can feature real children. Child sexual abuse offenders also sell those models to other offenders, making significant profits. Our law is clear that AI-generated child sexual abuse material is illegal, but the fine-tuned models that facilitate the creation of child sexual abuse material are not currently. The Government are therefore making it illegal to possess, make, adapt, supply or offer to supply a child sexual abuse image generator, and that offence will be punishable by up to five years in prison. Government amendment 11 is a consequential amendment that adds the new image generator offence to schedule 4 to the Modern Slavery Act 2015—I feel like this will get said a lot over the next few weeks—thereby removing the offence from the ambit of the statutory criminal defence in section 45 of the 2015 Act. We believe that introducing this new offence will give law enforcement the powers it needs to combat the use of AI to create the most severe forms of child sexual abuse material.

• 8 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Seventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  Could the hon. Lady give us an example of the sort of case she is concerned about?

• 8 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Seventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  I beg to move amendment 12, in clause 37, page 42, line 11, at end insert— “(6) In Schedule 4 to the Modern Slavery Act 2015 (offences to which defence in section 45 does not apply), for paragraph 35A (offences under the Serious Crime Act 2015) substitute— ‘35A An offence under any of the following provisions of the Serious Crime Act 2015— section 69 (possession of paedophile manual) section 75A (strangulation or suffocation).’.” This amendment excepts the offence of possession a paedophile manual from the defence in section 45 of the Modern Slavery Act 2015.

• 8 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Seventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  The shadow Minister posed a question about sentencing. Clause 37 amends section 69 of the Serious Crime Act, in which, as she pointed out, the previous Government set the maximum sentence at three years and an unlimited fine. I do not want to cut across the sentencing review—the Ministry of Justice would not thank me for that—but it is really important that, as part of that review, consideration is given to how sentencing in cases of sexual violence, abuse and other areas of interest to me and everyone else in the House came about. At the moment, we are simply amending the existing law to include AI manuals in the previous Government’s measure on hard-copy manuals. Amendment 12 agreed to. Clause 37, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 38 Online facilitation of child sexual exploitation and abuse Question proposed , That the clause stand part of the Bill.

• 8 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Seventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  Clause 37 amends section 69 of the Serious Crime Act 2015 to criminalise the possession of advice or guidance on using artificial intelligence to create child abuse imagery. So-called paedophile manuals that contain guidance for offenders about how to abuse children sexually or create indecent photographs or pseudo-photographs are illegal under the existing offence in the 2015 Act. However, the Act does not cover guidance for offenders about how to use AI to create illegal images of children, because back in 2015 we did not know what “AI” meant. Our law is clear that AI-generated child sexual abuse material is illegal. Clause 37 strengthens that law to include guidance on using AI to create child sexual abuse images. As now, the maximum penalty for the expanded offence is three years’ imprisonment and a fine. Government amendment 12 adds the paedophile manual offence to schedule 4 to the Modern Slavery Act, thereby removing the offence from the ambit of the statutory criminal defence in section 45 of that Act. Amendments 20 to 22 are consequential on amendment 12. We believe that this extension of the paedophile manuals offence will close a legislative gap and give law enforcement the powers that it needs to combat the use of AI to create the most severe forms of child sexual abuse material.

• 8 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Seventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  Online child sexual abuse offending is often underpinned by networking between offenders. Offenders create groups on both the clear and the dark web to facilitate their crimes against children. These groups can legitimise or escalate the abuse of children and allow offenders to commercialise child sexual abuse. Offenders within the groups assist each other in evading detection by law enforcement. Clause 38 creates a new offence of carrying out relevant internet activity with the intention of facilitating child sexual exploitation and abuse, punishable by up to 10 years’ imprisonment. Schedule 6 specifies the offences that constitute child sexual exploitation and abuse. Under clause 39, this offence will apply to activities carried out outside the UK. Under clause 40, it will also extend to corporate bodies, including the relevant persons who control them, which will ensure that offenders who commercialise child sexual abuse cannot evade liability by conducting their crimes through a company. Clause 41 ensures that any individual convicted of the offence will be subject to requirements to notify certain information to the police, to enable them to manage the risk of the sex offender reoffending. As with earlier Government amendments, amendment 13 will add the clause 38 offence to schedule 4 to the Modern Slavery Act—I often used to think that I could replace myself as a parent with a tape recording of me saying a wide variety of things about shoes, like, “Tidy your shoes” or “Clean them up”; maybe I could be replaced as a Minister with a tape recording of me saying, “This will amend schedule 4 to the Modern Slavery Act”—thereby removing the offence from the ambit of the statutory criminal defence at section 45 of that Act. Amendment 18 is consequential on amendment 13. This new offence will give law enforcement agencies the power they need to prosecute some of the most prolific and powerful offenders who facilitate child sexual abuse, with a maximum penalty that fits the severity of the crime.

• 8 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Seventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  I beg to move amendment 11, in clause 36, page 40, line 33, at end insert— “(3A) In Schedule 4 to the Modern Slavery Act 2015 (offences to which defence in section 45 does not apply), in paragraph 33 (offences under the Sexual Offences Act 2003), after the entry for section 41 insert— ‘section 46A (child sexual abuse image-generators)’.” This amendment excepts the offence about child sexual abuse image-generators from the defence in section 45 of the Modern Slavery Act 2015.

• 8 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Seventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  I am pleased that the hon. Lady supports the measure, and that there has been a change of heart, as has been pointed out, on the Opposition Front Bench. Although they are not in this group, if she looks at the series of clauses that relate to AI child sexual abuse material, she will see that there is quite a lot in them specifically on the Home Secretary having the power to allow certain AI companies to use such technology to discover child abuse. We do not want to inhibit GCHQ or—I wish I knew the name of some big, lovely, benevolent AI company; I am sure one exists. They might develop materials that would help us, because so much of how we find child sexual abuse material online is through things like the caching of images. An image database that the Government fund is used to identify known child sexual abuse material that can then be searched for online. I have no technical knowledge of AI; as I stray into this area, I can picture my husband’s eyes rolling firmly into the back of his head, as a man who works in tech. However, I know that on CSAM we always look proactively for—I am already going to say something that might be totally stupid—a certain kind of code and a certain kind of people, based on intelligence, and we have intelligence officers who work undercover in this space to go out and look for them. I hope that answers the hon. Lady’s questions. I give credit to the Internet Watch Foundation and the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, which have campaigned fiercely over the years for these measures to become law. They have been trying to sound the alarm on AI imagery, which uses real children and has real-world consequences. It is very easy for people to think that because an image is not of a real child, it does not cause real problems. Those organisations have been sounding the alarm, so I give credit to them. Amendment 11 agreed to. Clause 36, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 37 Possession of advice or guidance about creating etc CSA images

• 8 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Seventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  I understand the premise of witness protection and the clause that is in the Government Bill. The hon. Lady has raised a concern about witness protection being used to affect the independence of the judiciary. I wondered whether she had an example of that.

• 8 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Eighth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I thank the hon. Lady for her comments, and I commend the clause to the Committee. Question put and agreed to. Clause 55 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill . Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. — (Keir Mather.)

• 8 Apr 2025 · Crime and Policing Bill (Eighth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I thank the hon. Lady for her support. Question put and agreed to. Clause 52 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 53 Modification of Chapter for constables Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.