Gregory Stafford MP: speeches 2026

Speeches

• 7 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Twelfth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Before I address the clauses, I say for the record that 21 years ago this morning, 52 people were murdered and 784 injured by Islamist terrorists in London. I pay tribute to all the medical professionals who treated those people in such difficult circumstances. I will speak to clauses 59 to 63 together because they all concern one of the most significant structural changes proposed in the Bill: the abolition of the Health Services Safety Investigations Body as an independent statutory organisation, and the transfer of its functions to the Care Quality Commission. At first glance, that may appear a relatively modest machinery-of-government change. The Minister argues that HSSIB’s functions will continue, its statutory safe-space protections will remain and operational independence will somehow be preserved. However, when one examines the evidence presented to the Committee, and that given to the Health and Social Care Committee, of which I am a member, it becomes increasingly difficult to identify the problem that this merger is intended to solve. Instead, what emerges is a remarkable degree of consensus among those with the greatest expertise in patient safety that this proposal carries significant risks while offering little measurable benefit. The question before us is therefore not whether HSSIB’s statutory functions can be transferred to another organisation, but whether Parliament should abolish an institution that it deliberately created to be independent. That distinction matters. Across public life, we recognise that effective scrutiny depends on institutional independence. Government expenditure is examined independently by the National Audit Office, citizens complain to independent ombudsmen rather than to the organisations about which they are complaining, air accidents are investigated independently by the Civil Aviation Authority, and rail accidents are investigated independently of the regulator. In each case, Parliament has recognised that organisations charged with investigating failures should not also be responsible for regulating, inspecting or enforcing against those they investigate. Healthcare should be no different. Indeed, if anything, healthcare should demand an even greater degree of independence. Learning from failure depends on the confidence of patients, clinicians and families that they can speak openly and without fear that the information that they provide will later be used for regulatory or enforcement purposes. That is precisely why HSSIB was created. Its purpose was never to attribute blame but to understand why systems fail, identify the underlying causes of patient harm and ensure that lessons are learned before similar tragedies occur again. That philosophy represented a deliberate shift away from a culture of blame and towards one of learning. It was modelled consciously on the air accidents investigation branch, whose success over many decades has demonstrated that independent, no-blame investigations produce better safety outcomes than investigations driven primarily by enforcement. It is therefore difficult to understand why the Government now seek to move away from the model that other safety-critical industries continue to regard as fundamental. Clause 59 would abolish that independent body and transfer its functions to the Care Quality Commission. In doing so, it would bring together two organisations with fundamentally different statutory purposes, different powers and, perhaps most importantly, different cultures. HSSIB investigates and the CQC regulates. One exists to ask why the system failed; the other exists to ask whether the organisation complied with required standards—those are not the same questions. Nor do HSSIB and CQC require the same relationship with those from whom evidence is obtained. An investigation depends on trust; a regulator depends on compliance. An investigator encourages candour; a regulator necessarily retains enforcement powers. The different roles are not a weakness of the system; they are precisely why Parliament chose to establish separate organisations. I would be grateful, therefore, if the Minister could explain what assessment has been made of the impact on public confidence of the investigator and the regulator becoming part of the same statutory organisation. More specifically, what assessment has been made of the likely effect on clinicians’ willingness to speak openly if the organisation receiving confidential evidence also contains the regulator responsible for inspecting and enforcing standards? That concern has been expressed not only by the Opposition, but repeatedly by independent experts—and indeed, we just heard the hon. Member for Lewisham East asking similar questions. Even the Care Quality Commission has expressed reservations. Evidence that it submitted to the Health and Social Care Committee earlier this year acknowledged that a lack of clarity remains regarding the respective roles of HSSIB and the CQC. Rather than resolving that uncertainty, the proposed merger risks deepening it. The CQC warned that preserving an effective separation between its investigatory and regulatory functions would be essential if confidence in HSSIB’s safe space were to be maintained, and it recognised the genuine risk of perceived conflicts of interest if those functions become blurred. I think that should give the Committee pause for thought. When the organisation receiving the additional responsibilities is itself warning about the difficulty of maintaining the boundaries, we should listen very carefully. If the CQC believes that the risks exist before the merger has even taken place, what confidence can Ministers offer that those risks will somehow disappear afterwards? Similarly, the all-party parliamentary group on patient safety, of which I am a member, has expressed concern that HSSIB should remain institutionally independent so that its evidence-based recommendations can continue to command confidence across the health system. Such concerns, as I said, are not confined to Parliament, nor are they confined to one political party. They are shared by patient safety organisations, healthcare professionals and those directly involved in investigating serious incidents. During our oral evidence sessions, I put a straightforward question to Dr Penny Dash. I observed that I could find almost no one apart from her and the Department who believed that moving HSSIB into the CQC was the right course of action. That was not intended as some sort of rhetorical flourish; it reflected the evidence before us. Former Secretaries of State, patient safety experts, independent investigators and numerous professional organisations have all questioned the proposal. Despite the breadth of concern, the Government have not produced compelling evidence that HSSIB, as presently constituted, is failing. Nor have they demonstrated that the separation between investigation and regulation is itself creating harm. Instead, Ministers have repeatedly assured us that HSSIB’s operational independence will remain, that safe space protections will remain and that independent investigations will remain. If that is indeed the Government’s position, an obvious question follows: if HSSIB will continue to operate independently, if its investigations will continue to be conducted independently and if its statutory protections will remain intact, why is it necessary to abolish the independent organisation at all? That question goes to the heart of clauses 59 to 63, and throughout the evidence presented to the Committee, I have heard no convincing answer. The Government ask Parliament to believe that everything that makes HSSIB valuable will continue unchanged, but at the same time, they ask Parliament to dismantle the very institutional structure deliberately designed to protect those characteristics. That is not merely an administrative contradiction, but a constitutional one. If institutional independence genuinely matters, it should be preserved. If institutional independence does not matter, Ministers should explain why Parliament was wrong to establish it in the first place. That question of necessity leads directly to the Government’s principal justifications for clauses 59 to 63, the Dash review. The Government have repeatedly relied on that review as the intellectual basis for abolishing HSSIB as the independent body, yet when one examines the report and the evidence given by its author to this Committee, the case becomes increasingly difficult to sustain. Without doubt, the review identifies a genuine problem: it concludes that the patient safety landscape has become crowded and in places confusing. Dr Dash told the Committee that she had identified more than 150 organisations operating across the wider patient safety landscape, and that clinicians were spending considerable time responding to different organisations, requesting information, completing forms and participating in overlapping reviews. She said that the system had become “busy and confusing”, and that that was distracting clinicians from improving the quality of care.

• 7 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Twelfth sitting) · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend makes several key points, and he is absolutely right: what problem are the Government trying to solve here? If we believe in independence, believe in an investigatory body and believe it is working well—and it demonstrably is working well—why on earth would we change it? That goes to a further point: these clauses not only potentially provide for a transfer of HSSIB into CQC but add risk and failure in that procedure. My hon. Friend asks how we can be confident that the system is going to work if a patient or a clinician does not want to put their head above the parapet because they are frightened that there will be regulatory consequence. That is a fundamental problem with the Government’s proposal. As I have said several times in this speech, we have not had the answer to that and no answer seems to be forthcoming. I may touch on that in a bit more detail in a moment. My right hon. Friend the Member for Godalming and Ash was clear on this topic when he gave evidence to the Committee: “My concern was that the NHS and actually health systems across the world are not very good at learning lessons when there are tragedies.” –– [ Official Report, Health Public Bill Committee, 16 June 2026; c. 29, Q52.] That is the problem that HSSIB was created to address and why I struggle with the Government’s argument. If the problem is that the NHS does not learn lessons effectively, the answer should be to strengthen the organisation designed specifically to help it to learn, not to weaken the independence of that organisation. My right hon. Friend the Member for Godalming and Ash identified the precise part of the system that remains broken. He said: “the Bill does not do anything to address the bit that is not working well, and that bit is that the NHS is still very poor on acting on recommendations that are made”. –– [ Official Report, Health Public Bill Committee, 16 June 2026; c. 30, Q52.] That is the crucial point. The Government’s justification for the merger appears to be based on a concern that there are too many recommendations, too many reviews and too much duplication, but the evidence of my right hon. Friend highlights a different problem. The issue is not that we do not know what needs to change but that we too often fail to act on what we already know. The answer to that problem is not fewer independent investigations but stronger accountability for implementing recommendations. Indeed, my right hon. Friend made that point powerfully in his evidence. He explained that “What there needs to be is a formal system with a legal obligation on the Government.” –– [ Official Report, Health Public Bill Committee, 16 June 2026; c. 30, Q53.] He warned that too often recommendations disappear into what he described as “agree in principle”, which allows organisations to acknowledge a problem without committing to a timetable for fixing it. The Government are proposing structural change because recommendations are not always acted on, but the problem is not the existence of HSSIB; it is the absence of sufficient accountability when recommendations are made. The Government appear to be addressing the wrong failure. There is another important point from my right hon. Friend’s evidence. He explained that one of the long-term purposes of HSSIB was to reduce the need for expensive public inquiries. He told the Committee that “Ideally, when something goes wrong, what you want is for there to be an investigation and for lessons to be learned, so that grieving families can say, ‘Well, at least we are confident that this wouldn’t happen again.’” However, because families often lack confidence that lessons will actually be learned, they understandably seek public inquiries. My right hon. Friend explained: “families still think the only way they can get real change is through a public inquiry” –– [ Official Report, Health Public Bill Committee, 16 June 2026; c. 32, Q56.] That is an important warning. If confidence in HSSIB is reduced, the unintended consequence may be more public inquiries, not fewer—more cost, more delay and, most importantly, more time before lessons are learned and acted on. That is the opposite of what the Government say they want to achieve. The Government’s second argument is that safe space can be protected through legislation. I accept that Ministers intend to preserve those protections; however, the evidence we have heard demonstrates that the issue is not simply one of statutory wording but of culture and confidence. My right hon. Friend the Member for Godalming and Ash gave a particularly important example: he explained that the CQC plays a vital role because it rates healthcare organisations. Hospitals and GP practices care deeply about whether they are rated “outstanding”, “good”, “requires improvement” or “inadequate”. His concern was this: “If a staff member is talking openly to HSSIB about a failure of governance in their organisation, and that is the same organisation that could decide whether they get stripped of their ‘outstanding’ rating and downgraded to ‘good’ or ‘requires improvement’, my concern is that some people may worry and say, ‘Maybe I shouldn’t be open, because this could affect my hospital’s rating.’” –– [ Official Report, Health Public Bill Committee, 16 June 2026; c. 33-34, Q59.] That is the practical problem: the Government’s argument relies on the assumption that staff will distinguish perfectly between different parts of the same organisation, but the concern is that a frontline clinician may not see those internal distinctions. They may simply see that the investigator and the regulator now sit under the same roof. When people are deciding whether to disclose something that may have consequences for themselves, their colleagues or their organisation, perception matters. As my right hon. Friend said, “we have to be really careful that people still have confidence in the safe space function if this merger goes ahead.” –– [ Official Report, Health Public Bill Committee, 16 June 2026; c. 34, Q59.] A similar point was made by Professor Carl Macrae from the University of Nottingham. While giving evidence to the Health and Social Care Committee, he said that it is difficult to conceive how legislation alone could overcome the fundamental conflict created by merging an independent safety investigation body with a regulator, given that the two organisations perform inherently different functions. The Government’s case depends on trust surviving that merger, but the evidence tells us that trust is precisely what is at risk. Dr Benneyworth made a similar point from HSSIB’s perspective. She told this Committee: “There needs to be much more clarity about governance and how that will work in the legislation to protect independence.” She went further and suggested that if the Government proceed, there would need to be much stronger safeguards, including “a legal duty on the CQC to protect the safe space.” –– [ Official Report, Health Public Bill Committee, 16 June 2026; c. 26, Q44.] That evidence is significant because it is not a witness arguing that change is impossible; it is the organisation at the centre of this proposal telling this Committee that the legislation, as drafted, does not provide sufficient reassurance. The Government’s response cannot simply be that they intend to be careful. The former Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting), said that the integration would be approached with “enormous care”, but we have to ask what that actually means in legal terms. Where are the enforceable safeguards? What prevents a gradual erosion of independence once HSSIB is part of the regulator? History tells us that institutional safeguards matter precisely because they protect against future changes in culture, leadership or priorities. A body can begin with the best of intentions, but still drift over time—that is why Parliament creates independent institutions in the first place. It is not because Ministers are untrustworthy; it is because good governance recognises that structures matter. In this case, the structure matters enormously. Those concerns become even more significant when we consider the legal framework around protected information and the practical operation of safe space. The Government’s argument appears to rest on the belief that if the right protections are written into legislation, the independence of HSSIB can be preserved, but the evidence we have heard suggests that the challenge is much more fundamental. The question is not simply whether information is legally protected but whether staff, patients and families will continue to believe that it is protected. That distinction matters. During our evidence session, Dr Benneyworth highlighted a very specific concern about the drafting of the legislation. She explained that, at present, the clauses related to connected individuals could create uncertainty about who in the CQC might have access to protected material. She said: “The legislation needs to be much clearer around the protection of protected disclosure materials, to give the system confidence in our ability to hold and not share confidential information.” — [ Official Report, Health Public Bill Committee, 16 June 2026; c. 25, Q41.] That is the crucial point: the success of HSSIB depends on confidence that information provided in confidence will remain within the investigation process. If there is uncertainty about whether information could move elsewhere in the organisation, the very existence of that uncertainty risks undermining safe space. Dr Benneyworth went further. She explained: “There needs to be a legal duty on the CQC to protect the safe space.” –– [ Official Report, Health Public Bill Committee, 16 June 2026; c. 25, Q41.] That is a remarkable admission. The organisation whose functions are being transferred to the CQC is telling Parliament that the Bill, as drafted, does not provide that sufficient certainty. The Government’s response cannot simply be that everyone involved will act in good faith. Good governance requires more than good intentions; it requires a structure that protects independence, regardless of who happens to lead an organisation in future, who is Secretary of State or who is in government. That is why Parliament creates these independent bodies in the first place. There is also a practical issue that cannot be dismissed. Dr Benneyworth explained that HSSIB is unique because it can investigate every part of the healthcare system, including national bodies. She told the Committee: “At the moment, we have the ability, being an independent organisation, to investigate any part of the system where there is a concern.” –– [ Official Report, Health Public Bill Committee, 16 June 2026; c. 23, Q38.] That includes looking at how national systems operate, how regulators function and how different parts of the health service interact. That independence is important, because sometimes the problem is not the provider delivering care; sometimes the problem is the system around it. A regulator may look at whether an organisation has complied with standards; an independent investigator may ask a different question: why did the system make it possible for failure to happen? The questions are complementary, but not interchangeable. Dr Benneyworth made precisely that point when discussing national failures. She explained that some problems cannot be solved by regulating an individual organisation, because the underlying issue sits elsewhere in the system. She said that is not something that can be changed by a regulator—a fundamental distinction. Regulation can identify whether standards have been met and independent investigation can identify whether the system itself needs to change. Both functions are necessary, but combining them risks weakening both. Those concerns sit within a wider challenge on candour in healthcare. The statutory duty of candour was introduced following the Francis inquiry into the failures of the Mid Staffordshire health trust. The duty’s purpose was straightforward: when something goes wrong, patients and families should receive an honest explanation. Despite that legal duty, however, evidence remains of a defensive culture within parts of healthcare. Legal advice can sometimes encourage organisations to think first about liability, rather than about learning. Administrators can understandably become concerned about litigation risk—and where fear dominates, openness suffers. That is precisely why the safe space matters. HSSIB was created to provide an environment where the priority is not defending an organisation, but understanding what happened. If we weaken confidence in that environment, we risk making the wider culture of candour even harder to achieve. The irony, of course, is that the Government argue that the merger will strengthen patient safety, and yet the evidence suggests that it could weaken one of the most important ingredients of patient safety: openness. I also want to express concerns shared with me directly by people working within HSSIB. During a meeting with some of my constituents who work in the organisation, individuals involved in patient safety investigations raised significant concerns about the proposed move. They believe that bringing HSSIB into the CQC represents a backward step for patient safety. They also expressed concern that the rationale for the merger has shifted. Initially, the argument appeared to focus on streamlining and reducing duplication; increasingly, however, it appears to be about reducing the number of safety recommendations being made. That misunderstands the problem. As I have pointed out before, the challenge is not the existence of recommendations but ensuring that those recommendations lead to action. Indeed, I was informed that HSSIB has already been developing a recommendations monitoring system, specifically designed to improve implementation and oversight. In other words, the organisation is already working to address the very issue now being used as justification for restructuring it. That brings me back to the evidence given by my right hon. Friend the Member for Godalming and Ash. He identified what I believe to be the central weakness in the Government’s argument: “the Bill does not do anything to address the bit that is not working well, and that bit is that the NHS is still very poor on acting on recommendations that are made”. –– [ Official Report, Health Public Bill Committee, 16 June 2026; c. 30, Q52.] That is the point that Ministers need to answer. If recommendations are not being implemented, strengthen implementation; if accountability is weak, strengthen accountability; and if learning is not embedded, create mechanisms to ensure that learning happens—but do not weaken the independence of a body responsible for identifying those lessons. The risk is that the Government solve the wrong problem. They will remove the independence of the investigator, while leaving untouched the failure to act on what investigators discover. After considering the evidence presented to this Committee, the evidence that we heard in the Select Committee and my conversations with my constituents and others, I remain unable to support clauses 59 to 63. That is not because I oppose reform or believe that the patient safety landscape cannot improve—of course it can. The NHS must continue to learn, adapt and improve, but improvement requires honesty about what is working and what is not. The evidence suggests that HSSIB’s independent investigative model is one of the things that is working and that failure lies elsewhere. It lies in whether recommendations are being implemented, whether organisations learn quickly enough and whether staff feel safe enough to speak up. The answer to those problems is not to remove independence, but to strengthen it. The creation of HSSIB represented a recognition by Parliament that healthcare needed the same principles of independent safety investigation that serve aviation, rail and other high-risk industry so well. Those principles exist for a reason: when something goes wrong, society needs an organisation that people trust to ask what happened, why it happened and what must change to prevent it from happening again. That organisation must be separate from those responsible for regulating the system. It must be able to investigate without fear or favour. It must command the confidence of patients, families and healthcare professionals. The Government say that the protections will remain, but the evidence we have heard overwhelmingly demonstrates that confidence in those protections is precisely what is at risk. Once institutional independence is removed, it simply cannot be recreated through internal guidance or assurances. The structure matters, the culture matters and the trust matters. For those reasons, I urge the Minister to reconsider clauses 59 to 63. If the Government believe that improvements can be made to co-ordination, accountability or implementation, discussions on that should absolutely continue and the Opposition would welcome them. However, the clauses go much further. They remove the independent status, which is so important. Given the enormous human and financial cost of avoidable harm in healthcare, Parliament should be extremely cautious before weakening one of the few mechanisms specifically designed to prevent it.

• 7 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Twelfth sitting) · Hansard source

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  As my hon. Friend said earlier, the problem comes when this new body within the CQC has to investigate the CQC. In the oral evidence session, I asked Dr Dash what would happen if the problem was CQC, and she gave what is probably the most extraordinary answer out of the many extraordinary answers she gave. It is worth repeating: “Well, we then have to deal with that as a problem. That is the same as saying, ‘What happens if the problem is this organisation or that one?’…What if the GMC is a problem? What if the Nursing and Midwifery Council is a problem?” –– [ Official Report, Health Public Bill Committee, 16 June 2026; c. 8, Q9.] She did not answer my question at all. In fact, she entirely sidestepped it. How can we have confidence in the Government’s proposal if the architect of the procedure cannot answer the most basic questions about the investigatory framework?

• 7 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Twelfth sitting) · Hansard source

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  On a point of order, Sir Roger. I am a parliamentary patron and champion of Action on ME. I feel I ought to put that on the record, as we have an amendment on ME.

• 7 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Twelfth sitting) · Hansard source

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  As I said throughout my speech, I am against this proposal whatever the nature of the CQC. However, does it strike my hon. Friend, as it strikes me, that the problems of moving the functions of HSSIB into the CQC are compounded given that the CQC, as he alluded to, is not functioning well and does not have the confidence of patients and clinicians?

• 7 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Thirteenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, Ms Lewell. I think right hon. and hon. Members will be disappointed to know I am not going to speak too long on this, but they need not worry: in the next grouping, usual service will resume. I want to pick up a few points on the abolition of national Healthwatch. When we took evidence from Sarah Woolnough of the King’s Fund, I asked her a fairly open-ended question about when she gave evidence at the Health and Social Care Select Committee. I put it to her that she “seemed to suggest that the Government could achieve what they needed to in the 10-year plan without this reorganisation.” –– [ Official Report, Health Public Bill Committee, 16 June 2026; c. 15, Q23.] She gave me an answer that essentially said it could all be done without the need for the reorganisation that is in the current NHS Bill. I then asked Mr Jacob Lant, a representative from National Voices, whether he would agree with that and, unprompted, because I did not mention Healthwatch in my question, he replied: “Yes. I kind of think, as the debate goes on, that—with the changes to Healthwatch in particular—you could achieve so much without legislation. You could beef up the internal functions for listening to a patient and engaging with them without legislation—there is no requirement for that. You could invest more resource in that, and you could do the same with Healthwatch.” –– [ Official Report, Health Public Bill Committee, 16 June 2026; c. 16, Q24.] We already know from the evidence that we received, unprompted, from National Voices and the King’s Fund that the abolition of NHS England will not solve the problems that the Minister, the Government and the Department think are there, and indeed it could be done in a different way. I listened closely to the hon. Member for Lichfield. He seemed to be presenting a number of problems, but the solution that the Government have come up with does not hold water. As right hon. and hon. Friends have said, the removal of Healthwatch England and the introduction of a director for patient experience simply does not work because the independence—which is so fundamental to the HSSIB that we talked about— of local healthwatches, which we will talk about, and of Healthwatch England is fundamental to the ability of that organisation to do its job. In a previous career I worked for the Getting It Right First Time programme in the NHS. When that programme first started, it sat outside the structures of what was then NHS Improvement, latterly NHS England. At that point we could make recommendations to the NHS— I do not mean this flippantly —in a way that was unrestricted. As soon as we were brought into NHS England, into a governmental structure, the recommendations that we put forward were looked at and scrutinised and we were told often, “We do not have the money to afford that”, or, “That is not in our plan.” And that is precisely what will happen if recommendations are put through the director of patient experience. As others have said, when this director of patient experience arrives at a Select Committee, he or she will be there to represent and defend the Department and Ministers, understandably, because that is who he or she will work for. They will not be able to stand up, go on television or the radio, do the broadcast interviews or make representations, because they will be a creature of the system rather than a scrutineer of the system and an advocate for patients. That is a fundamental problem, and while I accept that there may be ways to improve Healthwatch England, as Members have outlined, this simply will not do it.

• 7 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Thirteenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I hesitate to intervene on the hon. Gentleman, because he seems to be straying into the next grouping and I do not want to encourage him down that route, but now that he has raised it, I share his concern. I do not know what it is like in his area, but the ICB areas that local branches of healthwatch will be absorbed into are even larger than counties. In my area, Surrey and Sussex make up three administrative counties. That is an even larger area. The provisions are clearly not the solution to the problem that the hon. Gentleman is outlining.

• 7 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Thirteenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  Obviously, I have sympathy for what the hon. Member is trying to achieve—ensuring that our data systems are free from potential hacking by either state or non-state actors is very important—but I cannot see anything in new clause 4 about the size of contracts. Does his suggestion relate to any contract, however small, that was given to a non-UK-based company? It is not clear what he means by a non-United Kingdom company. Is that one that is headquartered here, one that is listed on our stock exchange, or one that has a CEO who is a British citizen? I am not quite sure what he means by a UK-based company, but if we can define an outside-based one, is he saying that any contract of any size given to such a company will have to come to Parliament?

• 7 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Thirteenth sitting) · Hansard source

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  I want to address this clause because I believe that the Government are making a significant mistake by abolishing Healthwatch England, as they have just done with the group of amendments, and local healthwatch organisations. The Government have sought to reassure the Committee that the functions currently carried out by Healthwatch will continue; however, that is not the question before us. The question is whether those functions can continue with the same degree of independence, credibility and public confidence once they are absorbed into the organisations that they currently scrutinise. Having listened carefully to the witnesses who appeared before the Committee, and having reflected on the debate on Second Reading, I do not believe that the Government have demonstrated that they care. Once again, the Government’s case rests largely on the recommendations of Dr Penny Dash. Dr Dash argued that patient engagement should sit much closer to those responsible for planning and delivering services, that providers and commissioners gather and respond to patient experience themselves, that integrated care boards already possess engagement functions capable of undertaking that work, and that the variation between local healthwatch organisations means that the current statutory model is no longer justified. Those are interesting arguments, but they were examined by this Committee and, in my view, were not sustained by the evidence that we subsequently heard. Indeed, what struck me throughout the oral evidence sessions was not simply that witnesses disagreed with Dr Dash’s conclusions but that they challenged the central assumptions on which they depend. Dr Dash’s recommendations assume that independence is desirable but not essential. The overwhelming weight of evidence presented to this Committee suggests precisely the opposite. That distinction matters, because this debate is not fundamentally about patient experience. No member of this Committee disputes that patients should influence the design and delivery of services; Healthwatch already exists to help to achieve precisely that. The issue before us is different: it is whether those speaking on behalf of patients should remain institutionally independent of the organisations whose decisions they are expected to scrutinise. Throughout our proceedings, I have become increasingly convinced that that is the question that Ministers have not answered adequately.

• 6 Jul 2026 · Civil Service Pensions · Hansard source

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  I currently have 11 unresolved cases in my constituency and the numbers are going up. My constituents deserve certainty about these unacceptable delays. During Cabinet Office questions on 25 June, I raised these failures with the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, the hon. Member for Southampton Test (Satvir Kaur), who assured the House that “all…levers” were being used to ensure that Capita met its end of June deadline. Can the Minister tell us what those levers were, given the fact that they appear to be attached to nothing—Capita has still failed to meet that deadline—and what levers he will pull when the August deadline is, inevitably, not met either?

• 2 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend is right. I will not sit here and propose a solution to this problem, but what her amendment does is ensure that the Government look at this and present a plan before both Houses of Parliament, before we get to a single patient record. I have now touched on the nefarious and the nosey. I think there is also a case of inadvertent access. With this new system, despite what the professional regulators might think, and despite the best training from the Information Commissioner’s Office, there will be occasions in a new system where people do not understand the limits of what they are allowed to look at or the appropriateness of access. There could well be inadvertent access to these systems. Again, the Government need to have a plan and system in place to ensure that there is not inadvertent, non-nefarious access to patient records as well. That is why I am very supportive of amendment 48. To make sure that this system is trusted by patients, we need to have the highest level of safeguarding possible, both from external attacks and from internal misuse. My hon. Friend’s amendment goes a long way to putting some of that trust in place.

• 2 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  My geography A-level has clearly departed me. If a patient is travelling from somewhere in Wales to Shropshire, the single patient record would be used. That also presents challenges the other way, if Wales and Scotland are using different technological solutions and systems and operating under different legal frameworks. That is especially the case for Scotland: it has quite a different legal system from England and Wales, so there could be issues.

• 2 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  Before I was rudely interrupted by the fire alarm—I am not taking it as a hint, much to the Minister’s disappointment—I was saying that this is a unique system and that with the unique benefits come unique risks. I was trying to answer the points made by the hon. Member for Ashford. As my hon. Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham and my right hon. Friend the Member for Melton and Syston have mentioned, we already know that despite the regulations, whether they are from professional regulators or the ICO, people will get round the system. One of the biggest concerns that patients will raise is not simply whether patient records will be accessed by nefarious people from outside, such as cyber-hackers, hostile states and so on, but whether they are secure from inappropriate access by people who have access to the system. As my hon. Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham pointed out, those people could be situated anywhere across the country. Patient records should be accessed only where there is a clear clinical, professional need. The public rightly expect robust safeguards, strong audit trails and meaningful consequences where the rules are breached. Amendment 48 raises that important issue. The Minister should explain how inappropriate access will be prevented, how misuse will be detected and what sanctions will apply when the standards are not met. My hon. Friends have already mentioned a number of cases and I pick another one: the unfortunate case of the three-year-old boy who was hospitalised after being attacked by a crocodile at a zoo. Cambridge University Hospitals trust is currently investigating 40 members of staff who appear to have accessed that boy’s medical records inappropriately. While we would always hope that that would not happen, unfortunately it clearly does. This single patient record means that someone will potentially be able to look at patients’ records regarding anything and from anywhere in the country. My hon. Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham slightly generously described some people as “nosey”. Along with those who have an actual ulterior motive, that presents a real challenge. I say to the hon. Member for Ashford that just because the current system is in place to protect patient records as they currently exist, that should not be a bar to making sure that we make the system even more robust given its potential risks. It goes directly to proposed new section 250F(4B)(b) of the National Health Service Act 2006, which is the system of audit logging to be applied to each record, so that every time someone accesses a patient record or part of that patient record, the identity of the person obtaining that information should be recorded. I believe that the patient should be able to easily see, hopefully in real time, who has been accessing their record and at what time. We on this side have mentioned a number of big events: that poor boy with the crocodile, terrorist attacks in Southport and so on. I suspect that those data breaches have been identified because they were big events. People have gone out to check that nobody has been inappropriately accessing those records. I worry that every patient record will potentially be available to every single person, and I doubt that there will be an ability to check every single person proactively rather than reactively. That means patients need access themselves to look at their record and see who has been accessing it. If the name of the person who has accessed the record, or the organisation they belong to is available, patients can say, “Well, there is Mr Smith, my child’s paediatrician, and that is fine. However, who is this guy from elsewhere in the country who has looked at the record?” They can then raise that. That is absolutely vital.

• 2 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  For me, the key thing is that we must have equity of access to the single patient record. If somebody wishes to see their own medical record, they should be able to do so, whether they are digitally savvy or not. As far as I can tell, that is the intention behind the Liberal Democrat amendment. However, the hon. Gentleman raises an interesting point. We are seeing this already, but the more we go down the digital route—because it is more efficient and straightforward, and takes out the unnecessary bureaucracy of having a human interaction to book an appointment or whatever—the more likely it is that this will become the portal for all interactions. I am not saying that that is the Government’s intention, but he raises a point, perhaps inadvertently, that we need to think about. To conclude on amendment 70, before we proceed any further, the Government should be able to demonstrate that no patient will receive a worse service, face greater barriers to care or lose access to information simply because they are older, disabled or less digitally connected than others—that goes to the heart of fairness and equity of access in our NHS. I am absolutely certain that the Minister does not wish that to happen, but it would be interesting to hear how she will ensure that it does not happen. Amendment 49, in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham, would prevent the Secretary of State from making regulations to establish the single patient record unless a public awareness plan had first been published and laid before Parliament, and a minimum three-month public information campaign had been conducted before the system went live. That seems eminently sensible, and I hope it is something that would be not just welcomed by Ministers, but on their agenda already. Patients clearly have a right to know what information is being held, who will have access to it, how it will be used, what safeguards are in place and what rights they have in relation to their own data before the system goes live. A three-month campaign to give them that opportunity would be appropriate, because the things that I have outlined are not technical details that need to be buried in some Government website or hidden in the small print of a privacy notice; they are fundamental questions that deserve proper public engagement. I am especially supportive of amendment 49 because of the impact on older people, disabled people and those who are less digitally engaged. I do not think that most of my constituents spend their time reading NHS policy documents online—my notes say “most”, but I think none of them do, unless they are involved in the health world themselves—and they should not wake up one morning to discover that a major change to the management of their health information has already been implemented without their knowledge. A public information campaign is not a bureaucratic hurdle; it is a democratic necessity. If Ministers are confident that the single patient record will improve care, strengthen efficiency and protect privacy, they should be eager to make that case to the public and should therefore welcome the scrutiny, transparency and informed debate that a three-month public information would bring.

• 2 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  I read the clause differently. I am sure that the Minister can provide an answer, but my reading is that the single patient record could be—but not necessarily that it must be—used in Wales and Scotland as well. I do not know whether it has to be used, but the clause, as I read it, suggests that it would be. If a patient is travelling from Oswestry to somewhere in Shropshire or vice versa—

• 2 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  I thank all those who have spoken so far in this debate. I have never seen the hon. Member for Lichfield so animated—Data Dave is clearly alive and well. As we have discussed, the clause creates the legal power for a single patient record in the UK. It is important to say, as others have, that the Bill does not create the system but gives the Secretary of State the power to create it later through regulation. That does not mean, however, that we should not have a debate about some of the issues that we have raised. I should state at the start that I support better information sharing when that helps patients receive safer and better care, and I think that the single patient record could well do that. Anyone who has worked in healthcare, as I have, knows the frustration that results from the records not following patients between services. Clinicians can lose valuable time in searching for information, if they can get it at all. As others have said, patients are often asked to repeat the same details over and again—not, as my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight East rightly said, because it gives a richer experience but simply because people do not have the information. Better joined up records have the potential to improve care. We have, however, been here before. I was a lot younger—we all were—but back in 2002, the national programme for IT, under the last Labour Government, was a £10 billion unmitigated disaster, which the Public Accounts Committee described as “one of the worst and most expensive contracting fiascos in the history of the public sector.” I want to make sure that there are safeguards, from both a contracting and a data safety point of view, so that we do not go down that route again. As my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight East clearly outlined, creating such a record is fiendishly complicated from both a technology and patient information point of view and from a data sharing and data protection point of view. The record could contain some of the most sensitive information about people, so Parliament has the responsibility to make sure that the legal framework is right. We also know that the record will work only if the data in the single patient record is worth the electronic paper that it is electronically printed on. As I am sure the Minister knows from her time in the NHS, the information is getting better but continues to be patchy across the country. Different trusts and organisations record things in different ways. I take my hat off to those who work in clinical coding, as they do one of the most difficult jobs in a trust. Again, we need to make sure that the data is accurate. Someone mentioned AI earlier; I think AI could help with that, but we are still some way off. I want to canter through my concerns about the breadth of the powers being given under the clause. The Bill allows the Secretary of State to make regulations establishing the system and to decide how it operates. Those regulations may require or authorise the sharing and processing of patient information, decide who can access the information and create enforcement powers and financial penalties. Some of those important questions are not answered in the Bill. Parliament is being asked to approve a broad framework before seeing some of the detail. My second concern is that the Bill says little about patient choice. There is no clear statement about whether patients will have the right to opt in or out and no explanation of whether patients can restrict access to all or part of their records. There is no mention of whether someone could choose to limit access to particularly sensitive information, such as mental health records, sexual health information or information about substance dependence. There are major questions for public trust but those are left, I would say, entirely to future regulations. We need clarity about them now. My third concern is the scope of the information that may be included. The definition of “patient information” is extraordinarily broad. It covers information about physical health, mental health, diagnosis, treatment and care, including social care. The definition of “patient” includes people receiving social care or having their care needs assessed. What we do not know from the Bill is exactly how that data will be presented. Will it use language that a patient can understand? Will it talk about having a heart attack, or will it use medical information that a medical professional will need to assess? Or will it include both, so that the patient knows that they have had a heart attack, for example, but the medic can see the precise detail on what sort of transient ischaemic attack it was. We need to understand what the data is recording and at what level of detail.

• 2 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  On the hon. Lady’s specific question, I agree: the regulations will answer these questions. But I think it is entirely appropriate to have them asked here and to have a statement of the principles, at least, on a number of these things from Ministers, so that within a broad scope we can ensure that the Bill is appropriate. The amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham, for example, seek to do so. They were clearly within the scope of the Bill; otherwise, they would not have been accepted. The next issue is geographical scope, which I do not think anyone has touched on yet. The Bill allows information to be made available to people involved in “health care or social care anywhere in the British Islands”. That naturally raises questions about governance across different health systems. How will information be shared between England and the devolved nations? I think my hon. Friend mentioned some of the self-governing territories. I assume that she meant the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and places like that—Crown dependencies. What rules will apply? How will accountability work where different organisations operate under different arrangements? Again, the Bill does not answer those questions.

• 2 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  I thank my hon. Friend for that helpful intervention; I had not appreciated that. If that is true, the security and safety of the individual who holds the firearms licence, and indeed of anybody else in the vicinity, is paramount, and we generally would not want people to know precisely where guns are held, because that could be a security risk. I think the hon. Member for Winchester has the best of intentions, but the consequences have not been fully thought through.

• 2 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  That is an interesting question. I do not know the answer, but perhaps the Minister can pick that up. The Bill also creates powers for financial penalties. It sets out a process for notices and opportunities to make representations and a right of appeal. Those procedural protections are sensible, but the Bill does not tell us who might be fined or what conduct would trigger a penalty, and it does not set out a maximum penalty level. Those decisions, again, are left to regulations. It is also important to remember that the Bill does not replace existing data protection law, as I think the Minister outlined in her opening remarks. Organisations will still have to comply with the Data Protection Act and other UK data protection rules. However, the Bill would provide a new statutory basis for processing information through the single patient record. That makes the wording of the Bill especially important. Ultimately, public confidence will determine whether the system succeeds. People are generally willing for information to be shared when it improves their care, but they also expect transparency, security and accountability and expect to know who can see their information and why. Those expectations are entirely reasonable. There are several questions that I believe the Committee should ask before these powers are granted. Will patients have a genuine choice about participation? Will they be able to restrict access to particularly sensitive parts of their records? Who exactly will be able to access the system? Will patients be able to see a record of who has viewed their information? What minimum standards will apply? How will misuse be identified and punished? What independent oversight will exist? Those are not technical details; they are central to public confidence. In conclusion, the clause will create a legal framework rather than a system itself. It will give broad powers to establish the single patient record while leaving many of the most important questions to future regulations. Clearly most people support the goal of improving patient care, but because the system will involve some of the most personal information that people have, Parliament should ensure that patient rights, safeguards, transparency and accountability are clearly built into the framework from the beginning. It should ensure that questions are asked now rather than decided on later.

• 2 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  Precisely. These questions need to be thought about when the Government are creating this system. As hon. Members have described in their speeches and in their amendments, the system could contain much wider information, including highly sensitive information about disability, safeguarding, care assessments, addiction, pregnancy, military service, caring responsibilities and many other personal matters. This is not simply about a hospital record; it is about bringing together health and social care information. That makes it even more important—indeed, essential—that safeguards be clear and robust. That leads me on to my fourth issue, which is confidentiality. The Bill says that where information is processed under the regulations, doing so will not breach any duty of confidence. I think that that is a significant legal challenge and change. Confidentiality has been one of the foundations of healthcare. Of course there are already situations in which information can and should be shared, but where Parliament is creating a new legal basis for disclosure, it is reasonable to expect strong safeguards alongside it. That brings me to my next concern. The Bill says that the Secretary of State must have regard to the need for “adequate safeguards”. That is welcome, of course, but the Bill does not say what those safeguards are. There is nothing in it about role-based access controls, audit logs or whether patients would be able to see who had looked at their records. There is nothing about minimum cyber-security standards, about how inappropriate access will be detected or about independent oversight. Those matters may appear later in regulations or in guidance, but they are not guaranteed in the Bill.

• 2 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  I admire the hon. Gentleman’s optimism. I am not belittling his point—I, too, hope that no one would be treated, both in the traditional sense and in the medical sense, based on their background or anything else, including their recreational hobbies. Unfortunately, we have seen cases in the NHS in which someone’s religious background has led to antisemitism and other unfortunate issues. Unfortunately, sometimes the system itself has a problem. The Health and Social Care Committee published a report relatively recently on black maternal health. We could see the difference and the fact that, unfortunately, black women experience a worse level of care, often because of assumptions made about their backgrounds. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that I hope everyone is treated dispassionately, but I am afraid it does not always happen. We need to make sure that we root out that kind of behaviour, but we also need to protect people from it. Amendment 72 is another that was tabled with the best of intentions. The improved identification of veterans is an interesting idea, because I do not think many veterans actively identify themselves when they access healthcare. A visible marker could help to ensure that healthcare professionals are aware of a patient’s service history without relying on self-disclosure. There may be direct benefits to a veteran, because they may be eligible for dedicated NHS services—including mental health, rehabilitation and other veterans’ healthcare pathways—through the armed forces covenant. A marker could, then, assist clinicians in directing patients to appropriate support more quickly.

• 2 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  I will, but first I want to be kind to the hon. Gentleman and say that, as with his previous amendment, he has opened up a conversation about the single patient record that we really need to have, to ensure that what is on it needs to be there for the treatment of patients. As legislators, we need to have a wide conversation to decide what it includes and how it is going to be used.

• 2 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  In essence, we debated the amendment in a Westminster Hall debate some months ago, when I had the dubious honour of being the shadow spokesman for the Conservative party despite not being a Home Office shadow Minister. It became clear in that debate that mandatory medical markers do not exist. It is still a voluntary system. How does the hon. Gentleman propose to make the system equitable? The hon. Gentleman and I support mandatory medical markers, and there seemed to be cross-party support for them in the Westminster Hall debate. If they are not mandatory, some people will potentially be put under a different system, because their sufficiency or ability to hold a shotgun licence could be taken away from them, while those who are not on the system, because it is not mandatory, would not lose theirs. How does the hon. Gentleman deal with the equity issue and the potential for some people to be missed?

• 2 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  As we move towards a single patient record, we have to ensure that technological progress does not come at the expense of those who are least digitally connected. As others have said, I am particularly concerned about older patients and many disabled people, who often rely most on NHS services but can face the greatest barriers when healthcare systems—and all systems—become increasingly digital. For some elderly patients in my Farnham and Bordon constituency, navigating online platforms is challenging, and others may not have regular access to the internet at all. Unfortunately, my constituency has one of the worst full-fibre broadband roll-outs in the country, and it has extraordinarily poor mobile phone reception in the central rural parts of the constituency, despite my best efforts with BT Openreach and others. Disabled people may also face accessibility barriers that these systems do not always anticipate in their design. Modernisation should never mean creating a two-tier NHS—one for those who are digitally confident and another for those who are not. The people at risk of being left behind are often those with the most complex healthcare needs and the greatest reliance on the continuity of care. A proper assessment of digital exclusion is therefore not just a bureaucratic exercise, as some may describe it; it is an essential safeguard. We need to understand how the single patient record will affect elderly patients, disabled people, carers, those with learning disabilities and those who may struggle to engage with digital services.

• 2 Jul 2026 · Health Bill (Eleventh sitting) · Hansard source

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  On a point of order, Ms Lewell. Are we not voting on amendment 49?