Georgia Gould MP: speeches

Speeches

• 24 Apr 2025 · Local Authority Procurement: Economic Growth · Hansard source

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  I welcome the House’s continuing passion for procurement, and my hon. Friend has helped to lead the way in this area at Hammersmith and Fulham council. I have seen how much energy there is in local government to use procurement to deliver jobs and growth. The Government are working on plans to allow local authorities to reserve contracts for local employers. Public procurement can be a key tool in driving growth and supporting businesses across the economy. Our new national procurement policy statement looks to maximise spend with small businesses and asks contracting authorities to work collaboratively on local and regional growth plans.

• 4 Mar 2025 · Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Bill (Sixth sitting) · Hansard source

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  This is a large grouping of clauses that cover the heart of this part’s new civil penalties, so the Committee will understand if I cover these issues in some depth. Clause 50 grants essential civil powers to give the PSFA a range of options with which to tackle fraud cases. These powers may be used against individuals in England and Wales. Having access to both criminal and civil powers will allow the PSFA to be more flexible and take on a broader range of cases. This access also removes unnecessary pressure from our already overburdened courts, as criminal cases are often complex and time-consuming. That means that the PSFA can deal with more cases and in a more cost-effective and efficient manner. Penalties are a key part of the deterrent message that this Government wish to send by delivering the Bill: that fraud will not be tolerated. It is not enough to simply recover money lost to fraud and error. A clear message must be sent that fraudulent actions have consequences. That is why the Bill allows penalties of up to 100% of the fraud loss. That power reflects the broad range of fraud the unit will encounter. There is a well-established precedent of the effectiveness of civil penalties across Government—for example, in HMRC, the Treasury and the Environment Agency. The introduction of a robust civil penalties regime shows that there are meaningful consequences for breaking the law, even when prosecution is not appropriate or achievable. Aligning with other Departments—for example, HMRC and Treasury—the PSFA will issue civil penalties to the civil burden of proof. The PSFA will not offer offenders a choice between a civil penalty and a criminal prosecution. Criminal prosecution and civil penalties will be two distinct options for dealing with fraud cases. An authorised officer must prove an offence to the civil standard of proof—that on the balance of probabilities, evidence shows it is more likely than not that fraud occurred. The test will be informed by the professional experience, expertise, judgment and objectivity of an investigator and will be tested against legal expertise. Final determinations will be cleared by senior experienced investigators within the PSFA. This strong power is justified by the type of fraudsters we are pursuing. The PSFA can also pursue the recovery of incorrect payments as a result of genuine error via its debt recovery powers. However, we will not be penalising individuals and businesses who make genuine errors. We are targeting those who deliberately seek to defraud the public purse. The unit will also not be issuing penalties for payment resulting from official error. This key power is underpinned by robust oversight and layers of protection for individuals and businesses. We will be talking shortly about the safeguards that have been put in place to ensure there are sufficient opportunities for individuals and businesses to make representations, request internal reviews of decisions and appeal to the relevant courts. Every opportunity has been given to ensure that no one will be penalised in error or unfairly. I turn to clause 51. We know that there is a broad range of fraud attacks against the Government, from one-off cases by individuals to complex and organised attacks from supposedly legitimate businesses. It is therefore essential that the PSFA has the necessary powers to issue a civil penalty not only to any individual who commits fraud, but to any business that does so. There is precedent for this power being successfully used across Government, for example in HMRC and the Home Office, which penalise businesses in relation to tax matters and for employing illegal workers. Having the power to impose a penalty on an individual on behalf of a business, in addition to on the business itself, is essential to ensure that businesses and employees may be held accountable for their actions.

• 25 Feb 2025 · Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q You mentioned that the PSFA powers are used generally, but they have not been available to tackle fraud in the public sector outside of tax and welfare. What is your assessment of bringing those powers into this space? How effective will they be at tackling public sector fraud? Helena Wood: This is a really necessary approach. However, I would caution that we are holding off from establishing the PSFA as a statutory body for now, and I completely understand the reasons for that: we are in a very tight fiscal environment, the cost of setting up a new agency is substantial, and we need to test the competence of the PSFA in doing so. However, I think in due course we need a more fixed timeline to move the PSFA off into a statutory body, to at least remove any perception—if not actual political interference—in investigations. That is really important—we need a stronger timetable. I know that will happen when the time is right, but I would like to see a stronger timetable towards it. I think there will be at least a perceived risk of Executive overreach if the PSFA does not move in that direction more quickly.

• 25 Feb 2025 · Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Bill (First sitting) · Hansard source

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  Q Is the partnership with the PSFA that already exists working well? Alex Rothwell: Yes, it is. As I mentioned, the professionalisation of fraud specialists has made huge inroads in terms of the acceptability of fraud professionals, particularly in a finance environment—we deal with audit committees and so on—and there is also the recognition that the Government are taking fraud seriously. That is not just this Government but the previous one as well. The direction we have had from the Cabinet Office—

• 5 Feb 2025 · Draft Procurement Act 2023 (Consequential and Other Amendments) Regulations 2025 · Hansard source

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  I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Procurement Act 2023 (Consequential and Other Amendments) Regulations 2025. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Mundell, for what is my first Delegated Legislation Committee. This statutory instrument represents the final legislative step in implementing the Procurement Act 2023, which introduces a new public procurement regime responsible for over £385 billion in public contracts annually. The new regime, set to come into force on 24 February 2025, aligns with our mission-driven approach and supports the Prime Minister’s commitment to economic growth by establishing a simpler and more transparent system. In order to fully implement the Procurement Act, we must first ensure that procurement references in other pieces of legislation are updated to align with the new regime. The draft regulations make the consequential amendments that are a routine aspect of implementing primary legislation. They also make necessary updates to the schedules to the Procurement Act to ensure compliance with our international obligations. They amend schedule 9 to the Procurement Act to update the list of specified international agreements that identify treaty state suppliers for the purposes of the Act. The amendments will update the UK’s market access coverage in our trade agreements with Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, Kosovo, North Macedonia and Albania, removing access to contracts for healthcare services and enabling the Health Care Services (Provider Selection Regime) Regulations 2023, introduced in January last year, to work as intended. Further technical amendments include updating the list of central Government authorities in the Procurement Act. In addition to those technical adjustments, the draft instrument enhances transparency in public procurement. It also updates how key performance indicators are handled in contract details and performance notices. Finally, it outlines how to calculate whether the sale of excess electricity, gas or water, produced as a by-product of another non-utility activity, falls under the Act where the operator wants to sell it to a network. In summary, the draft regulations are essential to ensure that the existing legislative framework functions as intended, while facilitating a transparent, efficient and effective public procurement regime. The final legislative step in implementing the 2023 Act will strengthen the system for public procurement across the UK, benefiting businesses, taxpayers and the public sector. I hope that all hon. Members will join me in supporting and approving the regulations today.

• 29 Jan 2025 · Outsourcing: Government Departments · Hansard source

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  This is my first time responding to a Westminster Hall debate, and it is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Jeremy. I join many Members in expressing my thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East (Andy McDonald) for his contribution, and I echo the comments that have been made about his constructive and thoughtful work on this issue. Many Members had only a short time to set out their views. My hon. Friend the Member for Normanton and Hemsworth (Jon Trickett) said that four minutes was not quite enough, given his 29 years’ experience. That far surpasses my few months, so I would welcome the opportunity to have further discussions with any colleagues across the House. Critical issues were raised about a whole range of public services, and I would welcome the opportunity to sit down with Members ahead of putting forward the new national procurement policy statement. I join many Members in paying tribute to the work of outsourced staff—the security guards, cleaners and catering teams—who play a vital role in supporting Government and who allow all of us to do our jobs. They serve the public and the public sector, and are, in the case of the security teams, the front door to Government. Whether staff are directly employed or contracted, they are engaging in vital public services, and these should be decent jobs with progression routes, as we have heard. My hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East is right to raise the topic of outsourcing. As the Government set out in our plan to make work pay, we need to learn the lessons from the collapse of Carillion and more effectively manage markets to ensure the right mix of provision. That means ending the previous Administration’s dogmatic drive to privatise our public services. I was interested to hear the comments about ideology, having watched for the last 14 years as an ideologically driven approach led to waste, poor value for money and, in some cases, poor public services—for example, the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire (Mike Wood) referenced the failed outsourcing of probation services. We must ensure that all contracts are transparent and accountable and provide value for money for the British taxpayer. I was surprised to hear the comments about progress. Like the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), I have a background in local government—I think we both have a background at Camden council. While I was in local government, I saw billions wasted on PPE, and I saw the waste of the test and trace contract, when those of us in local government knew that public health officials and housing staff were ready to go out and do that work. Yet, so much money went to private providers, and I saw the ballooning cost of consultants. The hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Bobby Dean) referenced children’s homes. The new Government have had to step in to end the exploitative practice of some private sector organisations making excessive profits from services for vulnerable children. Under the previous Government, we saw a significant increase in privately run children’s homes, with a Competition and Markets Authority report suggesting that the 15 largest children’s home providers make an average 23% profit per year. Is that value for money? This Government have shone a light on those profits, set a new cap and given Ofsted new powers to investigate and impose fines for exploitative practices. As the leader of a council, I saw how insourced public services, when managed carefully over time, with robust assessment of benefits and outcomes, can deliver savings for taxpayers and better public services. During covid, I saw how our in-house repairs service immediately moved to delivering food, often volunteering to work long hours to support residents. I saw the pride and commitment that came from working for the council, and the greater flexibility and innovation that that could bring. I agree with the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington that there is huge innovation in the public sector. As we saw under the previous Government, outsourced services can too often deliver a race to the bottom on quality and standards, and a self-defeating approach that harms taxpayers and value for money. This Government are determined to deliver good public services and better value for money. That includes making decisions about how to deliver services to avoid the waste we saw under the previous Government. We have already begun to deliver reform of the frameworks for outsourcing, with provisions in the Employment Rights Bill to strengthen and reinstate the two-tier code introduced under the last Labour Government. The new Procurement Act will come into effect next month, creating a simpler and more flexible procurement system underpinned by a new mission-focused national procurement policy statement. I did not recognise the comments made about that work. I have engaged deeply with SMEs, businesses, the voluntary sector, social enterprise, contracting authorities, trade unions and a wide range of stakeholders to ensure that the NPPS delivers our missions for the country, with growth at the heart of what we want to achieve. The statement will set out the Government’s policy priorities, and contracting authorities will have to have regard to it when carrying out procurements. That will be the first step to ending the last Government’s ideological fixation with outsourcing. I am pleased to say that the statement is almost complete, as we continue to have those conversations, and I look forward to laying it before both Houses shortly. I want to respond directly to the points made about outsourcing. I agree with the position of Christina McAnea and Unison, which was highlighted by my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East, that a public interest test should be in place before services are outsourced, to ensure value for money and the best outcomes. The NPPS will set out how we plan to make it easier for public authorities to test the best possible model to provide value for money and outcomes for the taxpayer, and end the ideological presumption on outsourcing. Through these measures, the Government will achieve greater value for money for the people and businesses of this country, moving away from relying on a few large suppliers and being more open to investment across the country in the areas that need it most. Key to that is supporting SMEs. I hear so often from SMEs that they find engaging with Government procurement complex and burdensome. Part of the work we want to do involves diversifying the providers that come forward, whether that is SMEs, social enterprises or voluntary sector organisations. We have also begun to assess the areas of Government that could be done more effectively in house, and where there may be compelling reasons for Government to develop their own capabilities and capacity to deliver good value for money and better public services. Again, I welcome a wider discussion of that. That work will recognise the practical hurdles to building Government capacity, particularly in a constrained fiscal environment, and when many public services are under huge strain. Having brought a number of services in house in local government, I know that it can be very powerful and save money, but it also takes time, planning and investment. The lead-in times on procurement are significant, and there is no quick fix. However, active work is happening on those critical issues. We are clear that we will end the last Government’s tunnel vision on large-scale outsourcing and consider the best way to achieve our missions and the best outcomes for citizens. As I have set out, we want to see more diversity, including social enterprises, co-ops, mutuals, voluntary sector organisations and SMEs. We will use the measures in the Procurement Act to open up procurement to that more diverse supply base. Hon. Members spoke of ensuring that we have the right capacity to manage contracts, as well as transparency throughout the process, and that will be at the core of the work we are leading. We are clear that public sector procurement is an important engine of growth for the economy and that there are purpose-driven businesses providing good-quality jobs. However, as we have heard from some surveys, there is poor practice across the economy. That is why we have introduced the Employment Rights Bill to increase standards and ensure there are decent jobs, not just as part of Government contracts, but across the economy. I do not have a huge amount of time, and I will not go through all the measures, but they address some of the questions put to me today. The provisions in the Employment Rights Bill will empower Ministers to reinstate and strengthen the two-tier code through regulations and a statutory code of practice, which is critical. I end by thanking my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East for bringing forward this issue. As we work on the new NPPS, his insights and those of all those here are very welcome, and I am open to ideas from every part of the House. Close to £400 billion is spent on public procurement, which is a huge amount, and we need to ensure that it provides growth and opportunity across the country. We should use procurement to ensure that there are good jobs for our citizens in every community. Whenever we decide to spend taxpayers’ money, it is right that we make an assessment of what will deliver the best outcomes for citizens and value for money. Unlike the last Government, we will never put ideology before people.

• 23 Jan 2025 · Public Procurement: Reform · Hansard source

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  Under this Government, public procurement will be laser focused on delivering our missions and value for money for the taxpayer. The Procurement Act 2023 will commence in February, creating a simpler, more flexible procurement regime underpinned by a new mission-led national procurement policy statement. I really welcome the wide interest of hon. Members from across the House in this work and that of so many small businesses, social enterprises and voluntary sector organisations. I look forward to bringing forward the NPPS to support small and medium-sized enterprises, tackle waste and deliver on our missions.

• 5 Dec 2024 · Topical Questions · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend is right to raise that point. Earlier this week, the Chancellor announced the appointment of Tom Hayhoe as the covid counter-fraud commissioner. The new commissioner will leave no stone unturned to investigate the unacceptable waste and fraud during the pandemic and to make sure that we learn lessons for the future.

• 5 Dec 2024 · Public Procurement Reform · Hansard source

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  When our public services are facing so much strain and desperately need rebuilding, it is critical that we cut waste and deliver value for money. Under the last Government the procurement system too often failed to drive that efficiency, as was shown by the shocking levels of fraud and waste during the pandemic. We will bring new transparency to public sector procurement, along with a relentless focus on fraud.

• 5 Dec 2024 · Public Procurement Reform · Hansard source

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  That £400 billion is an enormous amount of money, and we need to ensure that it is going into growth, delivering for our communities and SMEs, and delivering on our missions. We are determined to act on procurement and reduce inefficiency, and we will provide further information about that in February. We cannot take lessons from the Conservative party about cutting waste inefficiencies, given that they oversaw gross mismanagement—Lord Agnew himself referred to “schoolboy errors”—in the delivery of procurement for this country.

• 24 Oct 2024 · Public Procurement · Hansard source

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  We will end the waste, inefficiency and cronyism that set in under the previous Government. Under this Government, procurement will deliver value for money, better public services and our national missions. As a first step, we are bringing forward a new national procurement policy statement under the Procurement Act 2023, which will deliver a mission-led procurement regime. It will drive value for money, economic growth and social value. We have also taken steps to cut down on wasteful consultancy spending, and have worked to set up a new covid counter-fraud commissioner. As set out in our plan to make work pay, we will also take further reforms set out in our manifesto.

• 24 Oct 2024 · Public Procurement · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend can see just how keen I am to act on this issue. He is right that taxpayers are paying the price for the Conservative Government allowing waste and fraud to spiral out of control. The Chancellor of the Exchequer recently took decisive action by appointing a new covid counter-fraud commissioner to help us recover public money and ensure that this never happens again. [ Official Report , 11 November 2024; Vol. 756, c. 5WC.] (Correction) I am working closely with the Public Sector Fraud Authority to push every avenue to detect fraud, from advanced artificial intelligence and analytics through to strengthening our enforcement powers.

• 25 Jul 2024 · Covid-19 Pandemic: Cost to Public Purse of Public Procurement Fraud · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend is right that the previous Government oversaw VIP lanes that led to millions in waste, and we are still unpicking the impact of that lack of oversight. I have met the Public Sector Fraud Authority to set out my commitment to strengthening the counter-fraud approach across Government. As I have said, the counter-fraud commissioner has been introduced to support their work, and will use every means possible to recoup public money, reporting directly to the Chancellor.

• 25 Jul 2024 · Covid-19 Pandemic: Cost to Public Purse of Public Procurement Fraud · Hansard source

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  As the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster set out, the previous Government allowed waste and fraud to spiral out of control. Latest estimates show £10.5 billion of estimated fraud and error in the covid-19 schemes. That waste of taxpayers’ money is unacceptable and the new Government are taking action. This week the Chancellor announced that she will appoint a new covid counter-fraud commissioner. It will use every means possible to recoup public money.