Emma Hardy MP: speeches 2025

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Speeches

28 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source
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Bills have obviously had to increase in the latest price review because we have had record levels of under-investment in our infrastructure. However, new clause 18 is intended to ensure greater fairness. It is important for struggling customers that he, as the local Member of Parliament, is talking to the water companies to ensure that they are informed about the support mechanisms that are available, and about how they can access them and everything else to which they are entitled.
28 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source
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I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention and also for the many times that he has talked to me about internal drainage boards since I became a Minister. On his question, if customers are not getting the service to which they are entitled, that is absolutely something that should be taken through Ofwat and the regulators. I am more than happy to pick that matter up with him outside the Chamber. I hope that Members across the House will agree that new clause 18 is a welcome addition to the Bill, ensuring that the Government have the necessary powers in place to bring forward secondary legislation in future—once we have thoroughly considered all options for improving the support available for vulnerable customers.
28 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source
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I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend. What she is witnessing in the streets of her constituency is a perfect example of the crumbling infrastructure that we have inherited.
28 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source
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Despite our political differences, the hon. Gentleman and I had a very interesting and—what is the right word?—comradely debate in Committee. As we explained in Committee, conversations on the water restoration fund are still ongoing. I honestly do not believe that primary legislation is needed, which Conservative Front Benchers know, as they established the fund without primary legislation. I gently point out, as I have already mentioned, that within the 18 months of its establishment under the previous Government, the fund did absolutely nothing.
28 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source
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I share the hon. Gentleman’s passion and love for chalk streams—the rainforests of the United Kingdom. Part of this Bill will drive the performance change in the industry that we want to see and reduce sewage discharges, which are doing such damage to such precious habitat. Although some Members have called for the Government to go even further on monitoring, I reassure the House that we have carefully considered how best to increase transparency without driving unmanageable increases in customers’ bills. As promised in Committee, I have provided a factsheet on this issue, and I can make it available in the House of Commons Library. Rolling out event duration monitors over two price review periods will provide the best value for money for customers and the environment, and does not risk compromising water companies’ ability to deliver other vital improvements to our sewage system. It is important that we direct investment at improving the sewage network to decrease overflow charges, and not just at monitoring, particularly where it does not provide valuable insight into the harms associated with discharge. There is a balance to be struck, and I believe we have got it right. The public know that there is too much sewage in our waterways. Whichever way we look at it—be it through volume or duration—they know there is too much. The focus must be on reducing it.
28 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source
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I wholeheartedly pay tribute to the Ilkley Clean River Group and to the work that my hon. Friend does in championing it in this House.
28 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source
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Let me try to get through my remarks. If it becomes feasible in future for companies to install monitors more quickly, they will be encouraged to do so. In addition to reporting requirements for emergency overflows, other measures in this Bill will ensure that water companies have robust plans to reduce pollution incidents and empower the regulator to punish wrongdoing effectively. This includes requirements to produce pollution incident reduction plans and implementation reports, as set out in clause 2 of the Bill, and requirements for water companies to consider the use of nature-based solutions in the production of their drainage and wastewater managements plans, as set out in clause 4. The transparency provided by these measures will drive a culture change ensuring that water companies have the right incentives to reduce discharges of sewage into our precious rivers, lakes and seas. Let me be clear that the Bill also provides comprehensive powers for Ofwat to enforce the requirements introduced by the Bill to increase transparency, including through use of significant fines. I can reassure the House that where discharges are found to have breached permit conditions, the regulator will not hesitate to take action. In relation to new clause 14, I also make it clear that Ofwat has a duty to secure that companies are able to finance the delivery of their statutory obligations, including meeting pollution targets. The Government are committed to acting as fast as possible to reduce sewage pollution in our waterways, and already have stretching pollution targets in place, informed by detailed analysis and extensive engagement. These targets will drive £60 billion of investment between 2025 and 2050, and almost £12 billion of that investment will begin this year, improving 2,800 storm overflows by 2030. I hope this reassures the House that, where water companies do not comply with requirements around pollution incidents and the reporting of those pollution incidents, the regulator will not hesitate to take action.
28 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source
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I will, but I have only 10 minutes.
28 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source
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As I have mentioned, I am a huge fan of our chalk streams. The hon. Member is right to point out that the much-lauded water restoration fund that some Members are so keen to talk about was established in November 2022, yet 18 months later the grand total of the number of projects supported by it was zero. A number of hon. Members have also put forward suggestions to improve information and data sharing more broadly. The hon. Member for Beaconsfield (Joy Morrissey) has put her name to some of these amendments. Although the Government do not think it necessary to bring forward legislation in this space, we are actively considering ways of making data more accessible to the public through non-legislative means. This includes information on water companies’ performance and data on local sewer networks in map form, which must be made available free of charge under the Water Industry Act 1991.
28 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source
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I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
28 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source
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That excellent point was well made by my hon. Friend. I hope all hon. Members agree that the amendments tabled by the Government will only strengthen this Bill and will support new clause 18.
28 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source
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The hon. Member and I served on the Public Bill Committee, where we spent much time discussing many of the amendments. I cannot comment on decisions about the business of the House and urgent questions. As I say, I will do my absolute best to cover all the points raised by hon. Members. I hope they accept that I generally try to be generous with interventions, but I want to put on the record my response to the amendments. I hope the House will give forgive me. A number of hon. Members have tabled amendments that seek to increase transparency around water company operations and pollution incidents. The Government absolutely agree that greater transparency is needed to better enable the regulators and the public to hold water companies accountable. Although I have previously explained why it is not practical to prohibit all discharges from emergency overflows, which are a necessary safety valve in our sewage system, I reiterate this Government’s commitment to reducing the harm caused by sewage discharge. Ensuring that all emergency overflows are monitored is a critical step in enabling the outcomes that we all want to see. Information on the frequency and duration of discharges will help to direct investment to further reduce sewage discharges into our waterways, and to better enable the public to make informed decisions about accessing their local waterways.
28 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [Lords] · Hansard source
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The right hon. Gentleman is indeed an eager beaver. As much as I do not wish to pour water on his enthusiasm, I will of course respond to all the amendments at the end of this stage of the Bill, as protocol expects. I hope he is able to contain his excitement, and is looking forward to my final comments on that area. And I shall be practising my pirouettes in anticipation. I wish to pay special thanks to the Welsh Government, the Deputy First Minister and the officials who have worked so openly and collaboratively with the UK Government throughout the development and passage of this Bill. I also thank the Senedd for their consent, which we received on 21 January. I look forward to continuing to work closely with our Welsh counterparts to protect our rivers, lakes and seas, particularly those that cross our borders.
16 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source
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On the welcoming point? Of course.
16 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source
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The commission will focus on reforms that improve the privatised regulatory model. We have already been quite clear that nationalisation of the water sector is not in scope because of the high costs associated with that option, the lack of evidence that it would lead to improvements, and the delays that it would cause in achieving better outcomes for consumers and the environment. The commission covers Wales and will review the model in Wales, where the largest water company operates a not-for-profit dividend model with no shareholders. In addition, as I have previously noted, the scope of the independent commission will include the governance of companies and the operation of existing tools such as the special administration regime. In the light of my comments, I hope that the hon. Member for Witney can see why the Government will not accept his new clause.
16 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source
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Conversations are ongoing, but I would not want to pre-empt their results. I recognise from previous conversations that this is a concern for the hon. Gentleman. The Government consider that the Bill is not an appropriate vehicle to resolve this issue. It should be addressed through measures such as the water resources management plans or draining and waste water management planning. As was mentioned earlier, it is our job as legislators to ensure that we draft the right amendments to the right Bills in order to achieve the aims we are seeking. Water companies already account for local plan growth forecasts in their water resource management plans. These plans for water provision over a five-year period with a forward look over 25 years provide for a development outline. We recognise the need for stronger and earlier join-up between local planning authorities, regulators and water companies. As I mentioned, work is under way to consider such questions and to ensure timely and mutual understanding of water resource requirements at a local scale to support sustainable development. That work includes the independent commission on the water sector regulatory system, which will provide recommendations for the roles and responsibilities of the water industry regulators that govern the water industry model and strategic planning. As such, it would be premature to legislate in this area or to impose any additional responsibilities for regulators until the commission has concluded its review, but I reassure hon. Members that the Government recognise the need for water companies and local planning authorities to co-operate effectively in considering the water infrastructure requirements that will underpin development plans, housing growth and sustainable development. The proposed new clause is unnecessary, and I ask the hon. Member for Witney to withdraw it.
16 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source
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I think when we had this debate, it led to the first of the fact sheets that we produced for the Committee. The hon. Member is talking about the speed of installation, and we highlighted that we will double the rate of the previous Government. We also highlighted that some of the improvements involve engineering and work. That is why we think that with £12 billion of investment, we are improving things, and I mention again the 2,800 storm overflows by 2029-30. So in the next few years, there will be billions of pounds-worth of improvements. We all want opportunities to go quicker—everybody would want everything to be done quickly. As a Government, there is always a balance between making promises we cannot keep—which is never the best way to go—and being stretching and ambitious. I feel that we are being stretching and ambitious while also ensuring that we do not make promises we cannot keep. Obviously, however, if there was a way to go faster, everybody would accept that. The Environment Agency is currently consulting on proposals to add new spill frequency thresholds to storm overflow permits. That will maintain the performance of storm overflows that have undergone improvements, and make it easier for the Environment Agency to act quickly if storm overflow performance deteriorates. Ofwat sets specific performance targets for water companies in the five-yearly price review. Ofwat is expanding those performance commitments for price review ’24, to include an ambitious storm overflow spill reduction target, which, if achieved, would see average spill per storm overflow reducing by 45% by 2029, compared with the 2021 levels across the industry. Where the commitments are not met, companies must reimburse customers, holding water companies to account to deliver outcomes.
16 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source
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Again, I recognise the intent behind the hon. Gentleman’s comments. Whichever way we want to address this, talk about it or set targets, ultimately what we want from a Government is less sewage going into our rivers, lakes and seas. If we can find a way to all agree on the best way to move that forward, that is something we can unite behind. As I mentioned, the Government cannot accept the new clause, but I recognise the intent behind it. It would cut across the existing targets that I have set out, creating confusion and uncertainty about which water targets the companies should meet. That would risk undermining the extensive forward investment programme that is already under way and is essential to delivering the changes that we all want. For those reasons, and for the last time, I ask the hon. Member to withdraw his new clause.
16 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source
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With your indulgence, Dr Huq, I will clarify something that I should have mentioned in the previous debate. Ofwat reserves the right to explore the use of DPC for major projects below the £200 million threshold where it offers value for money for customers. I just wanted to put that on record. I thank the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale for tabling new clause 33, which would increase the responsibilities of water companies where they participate in the planning process. As we all do, I genuinely recognise the intent behind the clause and where the hon. Member is trying to get to. We absolutely recognise concerns surrounding water and sewage companies’ ability to keep pace with the needs arising from new property developments.
16 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source
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Yes. We have ruled out nationalisation, but all other forms of ownership are in the scope of the Cunliffe review. I stress, however, that in a scenario in which a company was exiting special administration, it could go into mutual ownership if the organisation in question had sufficient funds and could ensure that the company, or parts of it, could continue to properly carry out its activities related to water. Of course, no one would want, in any situation, to transfer to a company incapable of operating and providing water. It is important to emphasise that it would not be appropriate for the Government to dictate the terms of exit from a SAR, as that would interfere with the conduct of the court-appointed administrator and their statutory objectives.
16 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source
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I thank the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale for the intention behind new clause 32. On a personal level, I welcome the scrutiny and the level of detail that we have gone into. As the Bill started in the other place, there was a lot of cross-party work and the Government have taken onboard some of the recommendations. I gently push back on the idea that this is not a necessary or valid way to examine legislation. The Government agree that competitive procurement can be a successful way to provide better value for money for consumers, and greater innovation within major infrastructure projects. In the 2019 price review, Ofwat developed the direct procurement for customers approach, or DPC, building on the success of the Thames tideway tunnel. The DPC allows the water company to competitively tender for services in relation to the delivery of major infrastructure projects. At price review 2024, Ofwat noted that, by default, all projects with a total life cost of over £200 million should be delivered through a DPC. Following final determinations in December 2024, Ofwat announced that 26 major water company projects would be delivered by competitive tendering processes, including a DPC, with a total whole-life cost of almost £50 billion.
16 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source
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It is a pleasure to serve under your chairwomanship once again, Dr Huq. As promised, I have provided a fact sheet on the use of special administration. All Committee members should have received it by email, but hard copies are available on the table for their convenience. Welcome to the last day of Committee.
16 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source
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I thank hon. Members for their contributions. Again, we recognise the intent behind new clause 34, tabled by the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale. However, it would be disproportionate to prevent all water company employees from being able to accept employment in Ofwat. Ofwat seriously considers the handling of actual and potential conflicts of interest. Staff in Ofwat are bound by the civil service business appointment rules, which do not apply to every agency, but they do in terms of Ofwat, and by the duty of confidentiality and the Official Secrets Act. Any new employees in Ofwat, regardless of their previous employment, would be bound by those rules. Compliance is mandatory and any breach may result in disciplinary action being taken. Individuals with experience working in the water sector have a wealth of knowledge—the hon. Gentleman mentioned this—that might be a valuable asset to Ofwat and could support better policymaking. I hope that this reassures him on his concern about the potential conflicts of interest in Ofwat, and that the new clause, as drafted, is therefore unnecessary.
16 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source
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Thank you very much, Dr Huq, for your wonderful chairwomanship. I thank everybody on the Committee. It has been a new experience for so many of us, with Members in new positions and some new Members appearing on a Bill Committee for the first time. It has been really enjoyable, and there has been pleasant camaraderie. Where there have been disagreements, we have had them in a polite and courteous manner. I think we have set a wonderful example for many of the other debates, and long may it continue. I thank the incredible Bill Committee team, who have done such an amazing job in supporting me in my work. I thank the Whip, my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester Withington, for making sure that we all voted in the right way at the right time, which definitely prevented me from getting into trouble while leading on my first Bill. And of course, we have had loads of written evidence, and for a small Bill, we have had lots of amendments, which shows the strength of feeling and interest in the Bill from the wider community. What else can I say other than we’ve only just begun, and you ain’t seen nothing yet? Following this Bill, which is just part of our phased transition to transform the water sector as a whole, we also have the Cunliffe review, and in the words of Arnold Schwarzenegger, “I’ll be back”, with another Bill—similar time, same place. I hope to see many of you there, as we go again to clear up our rivers, lakes and seas for good. Question put and agreed to. Bill, as amended, accordingly to be reported.
16 Jan 2025 · Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fifth sitting) · Hansard source
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At the risk of having the same debate over and over, I refer the hon. Member to the last page of our fact sheet. I am not sure how much clearer we can make it: “Would the shortfall recovery mechanism be used to compensate financial creditors or shareholders following a SAR? No. The shortfall recovery mechanism could only ever be used to recover a Government shortfall in the unlikely event of a SAR.” Once again, I welcome everybody to the last day of this Committee. As I may not have the opportunity to do so later, may I thank all Members for their contributions and for taking part? I especially thank the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale for tabling another new clause. As I have said, a special administration regime enables a company that provides vital public services, such as water, energy or rail, to be put into administration in certain circumstances. During a SAR, a special administrator appointed by and answerable to the court takes over the affairs of the business. The court-appointed special administrator’s statutory objectives, which are set out in legislation, are twofold: to continue the running of the company to meet its statutory functions until it is possible to rescue the company, for example via a debt restructure, or to transfer the company to new owners, for example by selling it. There is nothing to prevent the company, or parts of it, from being transferred as a going concern to mutual ownership by a company’s customers, should the special administrator deem that appropriate. Although in an insolvency scenario the special administrator’s primary purpose is to rescue the company as a going concern, mutual ownership could be an option following a SAR, provided that the organisation in question had sufficient funds and could ensure that the company, or parts of it, could continue properly to carry out its activities relating to water.

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