Catherine West MP: speeches 2024

Speeches

• 10 Dec 2024 · International Human Rights Day · Hansard source

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  I thank my hon. Friend for mentioning Yasin Malik, whose situation the FCDO is actively monitoring. I know that she is aware of that, because she is a regular correspondent with the Foreign Office and a very active member of the all-party group on human rights. On Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories, we are, of course, monitoring the humanitarian response there. On Syria, we all knew how terrible the situation was, but to see the unspeakable conditions in those prisons, to see the newspaper pictures of those nooses covered in human blood, and to understand that people, including women and children, have been buried six feet under in cells has been truly devastating. We do not know what the future holds for Syria, but it is a very fragile situation. What we do know is that this House, on Human Rights Day, has emphasised the importance of human rights being at the heart of the middle east on several different fronts. As these different situations develop, human rights must play a key role in any peace process and in how Syria is governed in the future. I will shorten my speech a little, Madam Deputy Speaker, as I know that people are keen to get on to human rights and IPU events this evening. We want to maximise the impact of all the tools at our disposal, and our approach sees the agenda in five themes, which I will quickly outline. The first is on defending civic space and fundamental freedoms. Today, a third of the world’s population live in countries with a closed civic space, which is clearly unacceptable. We will defend those spaces by changing our fundamental relationship to enable grassroots actors in partner countries to advocate for people’s rights. We will protect media freedom, building on the call from Commonwealth leaders last month to implement the Commonwealth media principles across our diverse family of nations, to which I refer the hon. Member for Lagan Valley. As my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East set out so clearly, the Government must continue to promote and support democracy in this world, and we are doing so through the Defending Democracy Taskforce. The taskforce is an enduring function of Government, which seeks to secure the democratic integrity of the UK from the full range of threats, including foreign interference. It comprises Ministers, operational leaders and senior officials, and it brings together His Majesty’s Government’s work on defending democracy to ensure we have a whole-of-Government response to the threats we face. The taskforce is reviewing the UK’s response to transnational repression, which was eloquently laid out by my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East. With his permission, I will write to him and all members of his APPG once the review is finished to give him a sense of where we are going on this important work, and so it can marry up with his earlier request that we look in an organised and systematic way at how we organise our work on human rights not just across the Foreign Office, but across Government. We must have a robust and joined-up approach across Government and law enforcement, not only on the human rights agenda, but specifically on transnational repression. My hon. Friend was right to highlight his concerns about the killing of human rights defenders. They do inspiring work, often putting themselves in harm’s way. We heard from the hon. Member for North Herefordshire about human rights defenders and peacebuilders who put their lives at risk to speak out. I confirm that our human rights defender guidance is being reviewed, and we expect it to be finalised and published in the new year. We will certainly take account of the wise recommendations from the debate about what a review should cover and of the examples used. Meanwhile, we continue to work with partners to address the shocking level of reprisals against human rights defenders, including women. Our second theme focuses on upholding the rule of law. My hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East mentioned critical right-to-life violations, such as the misuse of the death penalty and the use of excessive force against unarmed protesters. We need to promote and demonstrate respect for the rule of law in addressing those and many other issues. We have levers within the multilateral system to promote and defend human rights, including at the United Nations and through regional bodies, such as the Council of Europe and the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe. My hon. Friend made particular mention of attacks against human rights defenders in Colombia, which I covered earlier. I am delighted that we have a renewed parliamentary delegation to the Council of Europe, including a number of hon. Members of this House, and I look forward to them reporting back and bringing such matters to the House’s attention. I am glad to share that we are seeking election for another term on the Human Rights Council from 2026 to 2028, where the UK leads negotiations on resolutions that put in place accountability mechanisms for priority countries around the world, including Syria and Sudan. As I said, in Syria, Assad with support from Russia and Iran has committed brutal atrocities. Our focus now is on working with the Syrian people and the international community to move quickly towards an inclusive political transition. We are committed to tackling impunity and supporting an effective and independent International Criminal Court as the primary international institution for investigating and prosecuting the most serious crimes of international concern. Promoting compliance with international humanitarian law is the cornerstone of UK policy, and we call on all parties to conflicts to implement their obligations, reducing impacts on civilians and other non-combatants. This autumn, we published an updated voluntary report on our domestic implementation of international humanitarian law, and we are supporting other states to do the same. As ministerial colleagues have said in the House, we are clear about the unacceptable humanitarian situation in Gaza—a matter that many in this House have championed. We will continue to use all the diplomatic tools at our disposal to work with international partners to bring about a ceasefire and secure the release of hostages. Accountability is not just about international processes, and that is why we work in partnership with the USA and the EU to ensure that Ukraine can fully and fairly investigate allegations of war crimes in its own judicial system. We have our best legal minds working on that. In other places, such as Nigeria, we are advising on dealing with vulnerable witnesses, including children and survivors of sexual violence. Our legal diplomacy is second to none. The third of our five themes focuses on championing equal rights for all. I have already spoken about the Taliban’s disgraceful exclusion of women from all aspects of public life. We want to address the stalled progress and roll-back on the rights of women, girls, LGBT+ people, and those belonging to other marginalised groups globally. That is why we will continue to champion the rights and freedoms of women and girls, including in sexual and reproductive health and rights, and to support women’s rights organisations and challenge harmful disinformation. We will support the Westminster Foundation for Democracy, working with female parliamentarians globally to address barriers to their political empowerment. We have announced a groundbreaking global programme to prevent technology-facilitated gender-based harassment and abuse, backed by over £27 million of funding. I hope that the hon. Member for Lagan Valley will be pleased about that development. That programme will pilot innovative work with partner countries to promote a safer online experience, counter extreme misogyny spread online, and support victims and survivors of online harassment and abuse. Finally, we will defend the rights of people belonging to marginalised communities—for instance, by funding the Commonwealth Disabled People’s Forum to advocate for disability rights. By championing freedom of religion or belief for all—if the hon. Member for Strangford were in his place, he would be pleased to hear me say this—we are fighting back against the threats that so many people face for simply what they do or do not believe in. The fourth theme focuses on supporting accountable, effective and inclusive institutions. Sadly, we are seeing a drop in the quality of institutional life internationally. We want to work with partners to protect democratic processes and strengthen Government legitimacy. In Moldova, for example, we have helped President Sandu’s Government to counter Russian disinformation through the UK’s Government Communication Service International. In Brazil, we are sharing UK expertise, as the Government there develop their own online safety Bill. In Nigeria, we are supporting Kaduna state to improve budget transparency. We are continuing long-term work with Nepal, supporting the transition from conflict to democracy. The final theme focuses on responding to shared global challenges by prioritising human rights and governance principles. This debate further challenges the Department to get that right. We are living in a rapidly changing world that demands that we adapt, but we must do that while maintaining our principles. We are taking multiple steps to do that effectively. We are conducting a national assessment of our approach to tackling business-related human rights abuses, including in global supply, and ensuring that our actions are firmly based on the evidence of what does and does not work. We are actively engaging at the Council of Europe to address the impact of climate and nature emergencies on human rights. We are hosting the second democracy action partnership with Indonesia in Jakarta to support democratic resilience in the region. We are working with partners, such as the UK-based Centre for Information Resilience, to remotely verify and document digital content relating to the horrific violence in Sudan. Those five themes lay a strong foundation for defending and promoting human rights around the world. I hope that my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East will agree—based on what I have said, and indeed on the FCDO’s earlier event to mark Human Rights Day, which sadly we both missed—that the Government do indeed see human rights and peace building at the heart of our work. We recognise that many Members share that commitment, and I thank them for attending today. Ultimately, a freer, safer and more just world is in everyone’s interests, and this Government will work flat out with our partners to achieve that goal. Question put and agreed to.

• 10 Dec 2024 · International Human Rights Day · Hansard source

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  May I say how appropriate it is for you to be chairing the debate, Madam Deputy Speaker, as you have been such a champion for women since you came into the House, and when you were Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee? The theme of women and equalities has been raised again and again by Members during the debate. I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton) for securing the debate, and for the fact he has secured it on Human Rights Day. We have just had a lovely occasion with Mr Speaker, where we celebrated the work of Parliamentarians for Peace, co-ordinated by my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams). I will attempt to answer the question she raised in her intervention later in my remarks. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East for his tireless work to promote the importance of international human rights, including as chair of the all-party parliamentary group on human rights. I congratulate him on his recent election as chair of the British group at the Inter-Parliamentary Union, standing up for democracy, free from fear of violence, for every country. The magic of the IPU is that it brings together members from so many different countries, with their different versions of democracy, all straining towards that common goal. I was struck by what the hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sorcha Eastwood) said about the importance of online safety and democracy. Having taken her seat in this House, I am sure she is aware now of the erosion of our rights as Members, brought here on the wind of democracy, being attacked online, and how disgraceful that is. We must seek new and fresh ways of tackling online abuse. I also appreciate the contributions of other hon. Members, particularly the hon. Member for North Herefordshire (Ellie Chowns), who talked about the issues in Colombia, the indigenous groups and the illegal armed groups. Human rights defenders have put their lives at risk to defend their land and traditions, as other hon. Members who share her interest, such as my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East, and have gone to Colombia and got to know the concerns there, have made us aware. The UK Government’s important work in Colombia on human rights—which goes back to before the peace process and includes supporting the country as it brought that process in and monitoring it, with its new Government—started in this House and continues to have its support. My hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East also mentioned those who have gone before us, such as Lord Avebury and the former Member for Rochdale. I may not have known him as well as my hon. Friend, but he did a fantastic job of supporting the women of Belarus who did not start out as politicians or human rights defenders but whose husbands were locked up in the summer of 2022 and who ended up becoming public figures in their own right. Once again, they were attacked online and attacked for all they have done to stand up for their country. As hon. Members are aware, today marks Human Rights Day, commemorating the adoption of the universal declaration of human rights in 1948. My hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East is aware of and was invited to the celebration in the Foreign Office this afternoon to mark Human Rights Day. We would all have liked to be there but we are doing this debate instead, so we are celebrating it in our own way. The team, who I must commend for their excellence, have put on an important event to listen to those who work in non-governmental organisations, human rights defenders and others who care passionately about human rights. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who is no longer in his place, celebrated how far we have come. Today is a celebration of that and the UK’s important role, but it is also a reminder that we must keep pushing forward where human rights have not yet been achieved. As the hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth spoke about women in Afghanistan, we continue to call for the human rights of all Afghans to be protected, including those of women and girls and religious and ethnic minorities. Officials at the Doha-based UK mission to Afghanistan regularly press the Taliban on human rights. We are still making very limited progress, so we must continue to speak out in this House. That way, if there is any online coverage in Afghanistan today for Human Rights Day, those women will know that we are talking about them, their education, their wanting to become midwives and nurses, which is being blocked by the Taliban, to be teachers, to work, or to have small businesses. Instead, we are seeing a terrible deterioration of women’s rights. I know, Madam Deputy Speaker, that that is a concern that you hold dear. As the Prime Minister said in his speech to the UN General Assembly this year, the declaration sets out “The very essence of what it is to be human—of equal and inalienable rights based on a foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world.” As one of its original drafters, the UK must continue championing its importance and building upon its foundation, given the challenges that we face today. The Government will act to protect and promote human rights, democracy and the rule of law around the world.

• 10 Dec 2024 · International Human Rights Day · Hansard source

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  I thank my hon. Friend for his important point and for the work that he is doing to represent his constituents, such as, for example, going to Downing Street with a petition. Interestingly, the other Member who is very strong on Kashmir is my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North East who, like other Members here, regularly brings groups of constituents to the House. I know that the cross-party work that is done to promote human rights and to ensure that we observe their importance in Kashmir is crucial. That situation is monitored by the FCDO, and I would be very happy to write to him in more detail about the exact way in which that is done, bearing in mind, of course, that India and Pakistan play a crucial role in maintaining the peace.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  I thank my hon. and gallant Friend for his service to the UK and for his intimate knowledge of what it actually means to be at war, and therefore to talk about deterrence. I am committed, as is the whole Front-Bench team, to working as closely as possible on all the international friendships and treaties and the pressure that we can bring to bear, so that we can achieve a lasting peace together and be behind Ukraine as it steps forward into a very uncertain future.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  I reassure the right hon. Lady that there is no change in the UK position. We have always said that we will support Ukraine to achieve a just peace on its own terms. The PM has been clear, including in his speech last night, that “we must continue to back Ukraine and do what it takes to support…self-defence for as long as it takes”, because it is for Ukraine to determine its position in any future discussions. Putin cannot be trusted—Russia has violated multiple previous agreements—and the clearest path to peace is for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine tomorrow and respect Ukrainian borders. On the NATO membership question that the right hon. Lady poses, Ukraine’s place is in NATO. The allies agreed in Washington on 10 July that Ukraine is on an “irreversible path to full Euro-Atlantic integration, including NATO membership”, and the UK fully supports that goal.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  My hon. Friend will be aware that just last week, Germany made an important announcement about continuing military support. There has been a step change, particularly in light of the importance of the defence of Europe. Having a war on European soil is so instructive, and I think people are slowly coming to the table. It is clear that the UK has a real leadership position, and that is why the EU-UK security pact work is so important. The Europe Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty), is working hard to develop that. As Members will be aware, we have just announced more collaboration with Germany where possible, and specifically in relation to Ukraine. In general, the UK has so much to offer the EU in that regard. We know that the ongoing conversations we are having more holistically about EU-UK relations are enriched by our defence capability.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  The Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, and its members, heard from the Foreign Secretary last week about the UK’s steadfast support for Ukraine and our strong friendship. I am sure my right hon. Friend the Select Committee Chair is aware of that given all the Ukrainians who are based in homes in her constituency, and I reassure her that we will be steadfast and keep the support going for as long as it takes.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  There is no change in the UK position; we have always said that we will support Ukraine to achieve a just peace on its own terms. The Prime Minister has been clear, including in his speech last night, that we must continue to back Ukraine and do what it takes to support its self-defence for as long as it takes.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  I thank the hon. Lady for her detailed knowledge and her question. We know that the Euro-Atlantic and Indo-Pacific work closely together on all these Navy questions. I would not want to give anything specific away at the Dispatch Box that might help President Putin, but it is good to see that she is monitoring that. It is so important that we continue to work together, whether that is through the training of forces on the ground, air defence or Navy assets.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  I commend the chair of the all-party parliamentary group on Ukraine not just for his very long train trips across Ukraine to visit and offer his support, but for his technical knowledge. If he will give me permission, I will write to him with details of exactly where the project is at, so that he can give reassurance to all of his many followers in Ukraine.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  I thank the hon. Lady for her meaty contribution. On energy, the UK has provided more than £370 million for energy security and resilience in Ukraine through grant, in-kind support, and loan guarantees. That includes £64 million to support Ukraine to repair, protect and replace energy infrastructure targeted by Russian strikes. There is nothing worse than seeing families in darkness during conflict. On Russian assets, we are pleased that our sanctions regime has respect across the globe. That began under the previous Government and enjoyed cross-party support throughout the last Parliament, and it continues to enjoy support. Our best legal minds are designing out the fraud and kleptocracy that for so many years has dogged our economy—that is a personal priority of the Foreign Secretary. Right down to the proceeds of Chelsea football club, we are fighting every inch to ensure that money from those assets goes straight back into supporting Ukrainians.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  As the hon. Member is aware, Ukraine’s place is in NATO; it has said so itself. He supports that principle. Allies agreed in Washington on 10 July that Ukraine is on an irreversible path to full Euro-Atlantic integration, including NATO membership. Of course, the UK fully supports that goal. The hon. Member plays an important role in that because in the US there are important Irish counterparts, or those who might have heritage there, who will want to hear from him to lay out the case for supporting Ukraine.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  Of course. That is why we have supported Ukraine as it has made the case for wanting to be in NATO and as it has made the case for being as close as possible to friends in Europe. That is why we have supported the Ukrainians in their requests for either military or non-military aid. That is why we have implored others, even as far away as the Indo-Pacific, to assist in this push to ensure that there is as much support as possible to stand up to bullies.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  I thank the Chair of the Defence Committee for his questions. We are all watching closely what is happening in Kursk, and we are extremely concerned by the additional forces from the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, who are estimated to be around 10,000 in number. It is so sad to see the strong potential for those young men to be victims of this war. We are also aware that it will be a tough few months while we re-establish our joint working with all partners across the US, the UK and Europe, but of this we can be sure: it is not a good sign or a good message for anyone to see that an aggressive invasion, such as Putin’s invasion across the borders of Ukraine, can somehow be the right thing or that it can be successful. We must use all our diplomatic tools across the Chamber to speak to friends in the UK and the US who have great friendships with the people of Ukraine and to continue to make the case for the men, women and children of Ukraine.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  I thank my hon. Friend, the Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee—we have a good showing of Select Committee Chairs in the House today. I reassure her that the UK has imposed measures on over 2,100 individuals and entities, the most wide-ranging sanctions ever imposed on a major economy. Most recently, we have imposed sanctions against 69 vessels in Russia’s shadow fleet transporting Russian oil outside G7 sanctions. May I say how pleased I am—I am sure that I speak for everybody across the House—that through our leadership on sanctions, with our best legal minds, we have managed to bring in all those financial penalties against the aggressor?

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  The UK’s support for Ukraine to defend itself against Russian aggression is ironclad. In July this year, the Government committed to provide Ukraine with £3 billion of military aid every year for as long as needed. In October, we announced that the UK Government would provide a further £2.26 billion as the UK’s contribution to the $50 billion G7 loan, earmarked as budgetary support for Ukraine’s military spending. This will be provided in addition to our bilateral military aid. We are also stepping up and speeding up delivery of our military support. The UK is also leading the way in terms of pressure on Russia and Putin’s war machine. To date, we have sanctioned over 2,100 individuals and entities under the Russia sanctions regime. Sanctions have deprived Russia of over $400 billion since February 2022, equivalent to four more years of funding for the invasion. Putin’s problems are growing, with 700,000 casualties to date, voluntary recruitment down 40% and an unsustainable war economy. Russia has been forced to rely on Iran for missiles and on the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea for foot soldiers. Our support to Ukraine is a core UK national interest. A Russian victory would diminish the west’s global standing, create a zone of instability on our eastern flank, and embolden Putin and other autocrats. This could require cold war levels of defence spending. On 19 November, we passed a grim milestone—1,000 days since Putin launched his full-scale invasion. Millions of Ukrainians have been displaced from their homes or forced into exile, and as we know from our constituencies, we have homes full of Ukrainian families. The Prime Minister has made it clear that we need to double down on our support for Ukraine. As the Foreign Secretary told the United Nations Security Council last month, we stand with the people of Ukraine during this terrible period of its history. It is wonderful to have cross-party support for that, and for the support that the UK will deliver for as long as it takes until Ukraine prevails, to ensure that this can never happen again.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  The key words are “respecting borders”, and that is where the neocolonial philosophy of President Putin, as he laid out originally in that seminal essay before the war, shows how completely at odds with the modern viewpoint he is. Yes, we will support Ukraine on its vision of its own borders, its own strength and its own sovereignty.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  I refer the hon. and gallant Gentleman to the discussion in the Adjournment debate last night on medical assistance in conflict. The UK has an enormous amount of resource in that area. I will certainly look into what is possible and write to him with what we are already doing in relation to Ukraine.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  As my hon. Friend might have gathered, it is from a position of weakness that those countries are being relied on to shore up support. That is why it is so important that we look holistically at our sanctions regime, which cannot be just about the current conflict. It must also be about how we stop the Iranian military juggernaut and how we look at the military industrial complex, which works across all sorts of different regimes. That is why it is also so important to understand how the economies of the DPRK can tip into Russia and for us to work with countries who support us and do not support that particular access so that we can win the argument as well as the battle.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the psychology of this conflict. It is why it is so important, particularly in these desperate winter months, that we remain firm. I commend him and others for all their work on the all-party parliamentary group on Ukraine, and all their work on security and intelligence, to provide that important, dedicated cross-party support to Ukraine. In the end, we know that it is for Ukraine to determine its position on its future, its just peace and its vision for its own people, but we will be behind the Ukrainians so that they know we can be relied on.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Ukraine · Hansard source

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  I thank my hon. Friend for making an important point. We all watched two summers ago with bated breath as the Black sea grain negotiations occurred, and the impact of missing out on that important agricultural wealth in Ukraine, and the deleterious effect it had on developing nations, were of concern to all in this House. He is right to speak about the knock-on effects of conflict. We must redouble our efforts to stop that happening.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Georgia · Hansard source

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  I thank the relatively newly elected Member for his question. Those of us who participate in elections all know how emotional they can be, but that is no excuse for police brutality should protestors want to protest about coercion during the elections, how the elections took place or the result itself. I am very pleased that the hon. Gentleman has raised in the House today the importance of restraint and of pushing back against the atmosphere of pressure on civil society. It is particularly disheartening to see young people, who are so excited about a more open and hopeful future, freedom of the press and freedom to associate, being cracked down on in the way that they have been.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Georgia · Hansard source

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  I thank the hon. Lady for her concern. I thank her, too, for her impassioned plea for peaceful expression of political views and for the UK to play its role in supporting not only that vision for freedom, but a stable assessment following the election, acting on the information and investigation material that have come forward from the report. Of course we supported the election observers, so we need to listen to what they say as a result of those investigations. Let me also thank the hon. Lady for her condemnation of the brutal and excessive force used against protesters and journalists. I will certainly pass on her exhortation to be on the side of those with vision and those who wish to freely express their point of view.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Georgia · Hansard source

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  I thank the hon. Member for his ongoing commitment to freedom and peaceful relations and his interest in keeping the UK’s reputation for supporting democracies so alive in this House. Our mission in Tbilisi will be watching or reading this urgent question, including his concerns and questions. It is so important to support Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations, in line with the strong will of the Georgian people over the past few years, particularly in the light of the conflict in Ukraine, which is in its neighbourhood. That is why we have been such a strong supporter of democratic reforms over many years, working with Parliament, civil society, independent media and the Government to support reforms and Georgia’s continued progress towards membership of the Euro-Atlantic community. The mission in Tbilisi is well resourced. We have excellent professionals there, working very closely to understand the exact investigation into the irregularities of the election, trying to see what is happening with the formation of the new Government post-election, calling for restraint so that those battles on the squares do not turn into any form of police brutality, but retain that vision of freedom and democracy.

• 3 Dec 2024 · Georgia · Hansard source

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  I thank the Liberal Democrat spokesperson for his fulsome questions. With regard to our involvement in the region, we backed and paid for observers for the election period. We are waiting to hear about the investigation into irregularities. The current UK position is that, due to our growing concerns over Georgia’s negative Euro-Atlantic trajectory—going away from the EU—and democratic backsliding, including on the laws on transparency, foreign influence and family values, in June the UK decided to freeze the annual Wardrop UK-Georgia strategic dialogue and defence staff talks. We use a suspension initially because we want to appear reasonable, and we want Georgia to be reasonable back, but that does not preclude future more definitive actions if necessary.